State of Emergency

Keep rocking girl.  You are what makes this country worth living in!

Makes me jealous that she can verbalize what I can only feel.

You go girl!

CHO! CHO! CHO! CHO! CHO!

Get ‘em, Margaret!

Tell ‘em to keep their filthy facist fingers off our constitution, babe!  Love you Margaret!

You said, “Not allowing people to marry is totally against the Constitution.” Where did you get that crock? The Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution were totally against a lot of things, especially those that threatened the family, the basis of society!

Show me an advanced nation that was built by a bunch of gay and lesbian couples...there isn’t one.  But there have been plenty of civilizations that were ruined by allowing and then embracing homosexual practices...or did you fail history too?

Oh well, in a few years, no one will know your name, so you can just keep on raving in the darkness.  The majority of the people in this country have high morals and don’t notice you anyway.

I seriously doubt that Ms Cho will make it to being the most successful comedian around.  After all she has the least tolerance for opposite view points from hers than the conservatives.  She spews hate from her mouth all the time.  It makes me sick!!

how does being gay threaten a family?  the basis of society?  please study your history - the original purpose of marriage was for business - men married women because they came with standing, status and property. women were treated as chattel.

an advanced nation is one where people are not afraid of anything/anyone who is different. sadly, this may not happen in our lifetime.

Margaret and those like her not afraid to speak up and should never be silenced.

Peace.

Well Tom, thank god no one knows who you are.

I disagree with your stunning analysis of constitutional law. Possibly, ‘life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness’ may be found in a same sex marriage - at least as often in a man / woman marriage.

Your hypothesis of the decline of ‘plenty of civilizations’ from ‘allowing then embracing’ homosexual practices is a ludicrous as it is blatantly homophobic.

You think you are in the majority - me thinks the homophobe doth protest too much.

Margaret. Well done.

In re: Tom What’s -his-face’s comment: “Show me an advanced nation that was built by a bunch of gay and lesbian couples...there isn’t one.  But there have been plenty of civilizations that were ruined by allowing and then embracing homosexual practices...or did you fail history too?”

Eek. Someone (Tom Galloway) knows little of Thomas Jefferson, the Father of the US Constitution. Someone (Tom Galloway) needs to retake US History. Someone (Tom Gallowy), sez that because you know, if you’re not a good church-goin’ God-fearin’ X-ian, you’re less of an American.

Someone (Tom Galloway) isn’t very accurate.

I just wanted to say that my partner and I are pretty threatening to families everywhere.  We go to work, we come home, we fix dinner for the kids, we help with their homework, we go to the YMCA as a family, we go to bed, and then start it all over again. We also pay our taxes. We encourage our kids to do well in school and try and teach them that what matters in the end is how you treat people.  Pretty bad values huh?  Us gays are going to be the down fall of the world. If it means tolerance and how you treat people, then I hope we are the down fall of the world as we know.
And remember to vote.  10% makes a BIG difference.

I appreciate those like Margaret Cho, who stand in the front lines in the U.S. in the battleground of this election, say what they think and think about what they say.

It’s about time for those who believe in America to win this country back.

Tom,
you say the majority of the people in this country have high morals?

we are consuming most of the world’s resources (greed) and 60% of Americans are overweight (gluttony) and over half of the marriages in the nation end up in divorce. our nation’s CEO’s are committing some of the worse financial crimes in history and many, many innocent people suffer for it.

hmmm--i don’t know.

To Jade: Hmmm, you must have a history book that ignores the Bible and the history lessons it contains.  Marriage was given to Man by God to join one man and one woman.  And...your definition of an advanced nation sounds exactly like the Romans and the Greeks before they imploded. Great examples to follow. Also, I’m not trying to silence Margaret...just expressing
my opinion...just like her.

To Kristin:  Gee, what would happen if someone knew who I was? It sounds like you are the phobic one. In your mind, anyone who doesn’t fall at the feet of the gay and lesbian movement and shower you with praises is homophobic! But then, that’s to be expected from a very small minority trying to cram their philosophy down the throats of the vast majority. We would rather just ignore you.

To Ann:  Thomas Jefferson?...church-goin’, God-fearin’?...less of an American? Wow!  You got all that from my letter? Do you read tea leaves too? Again, I refer to the Romans and Greeks.

To Stan:  So...your argument is that because some of us are overweight, and some marriages fail, and we have too many choices in the grocery aisles, and SOME of our CEO’s are criminals...that proves that our whole nation has low morals, so we should all just give up and go all the way to gay! Why? So you can feel better about your particular immoral way of life?
Great logic!

Actually folks, my comments were to Ms. Cho. I guess that the truth hurts a lot of you...well..."straighten up and fly right”!

mr. galloway - the bible has a bit of a misogynistic attitude towards women - hosea 2:16, isaiah 62:4, just to name a couple.

china allowed homosexual activities. they don’t outright condemn it and it is among the oldest civilization in the world. matter of fact she threatens to overtake the US in economic world power in another decade.

you probably won’t like what i just wrote.

just because someone doesn’t like the same as you, love the way you do, think the way you do, doesn’t mean they are any less than you.

EVERYONE is entitled to the freedoms and rights as stated in the constitution. it is for the PEOPLE. straight, crooked, gay, sad, fat, skinny, roman, greek, or otherwise. 

and for your information, i am very straight. thank you. peace.

Tom, why are you so threatened by people who are different from you? You cannot make everybody be just like you.  I wouldn’t want to be a narrow minded fool anyway.  There are six billion people in this world and they are all different. I know you are HORRIFIED.

If you want to move to a police state with a state religion, GO THERE.  The US was established to get away from religious persecution and the state religion of the Church of England. 

Why are you so concerned about people who don’t have an official state license to have sex?  Mind your own business.  Why don’t you go feed the hungry and comfort the sick? 
Or are you too busy praying your ass off for us heathens?

Tom,
I get so angry at people who spead hate that it starts to affect who I am.  I do not want to be evil so I wish you peace and light and that the gods and goddesses bless you and your loved ones!

Tom,
you live in fear. and you don’t know how many crimes this nation commits in the name of “democracy”.
i don’t know where you got the notion of my pointing out such immoral things means we should chuck it all and be gay.
a person is born gay and doesn’t just ‘choose’ to be. i’m not and i don’t care who is.
but you are judging people. what would jesus do, ask yourself.

OK, Sometimes I’m not up to the task of opening the minds of my countrymen to the One True Way of “I’ll do me, you mind your own house.” I applaud those of my countrymen who ARE up to the task. Thank you. We need more of you, and fewer of THEM. Fewer of me, too. I’m too disgusted with the low-ass common denominator to be as diplomatic as it takes to be effective. That said, I’m active in many ways, and I do what I can.

I have a different problem, though. Once the Fates smile, and Bush is out of the White House, how do we Americans get along? I hate Bush supporters, and I can’t figure out how not to. Masses of them feel the same way about us. I suppose I’m borrowing trouble, but has anyone thought about how to forgive and move on, one way or another? The divide can only deepen. Who even wants to be friends with those clowns, but we all live together. Any ideas, from either side?
-KT

If it were not for the high divorce rate, domestic abuse, and high level of non-monogamous “committment” among heterosexual marriages, the hypocrisy of the “sanctity” of marriage would not be so absurd.

Heterosexual unions are not exactly the model I would want to follow!  Too many people have made the word marriage into a symbol for a long forgotten purity that never existed.

Reply to KT’s question as to what to do after the Democrats take power and the Republicans are no longer the majority in the Senate & House.

It will take so much energy to fix the laws and policies that have been broken these past four years AND then go on to making peace and justice in our country the norm, that we will need to let go of the past anger immediately and begin writing letters to the paper and to our Congress people, demanding changes.

We will not have time for anger and hate if we want to fix this world before it is too late.  I am feeling confident that justice will prevail in November and we need not gloat but get our butts in gear!

in response to KT - we all make choices based on what we know, what we fear - no one is perfect - dem or republican - but underneath partisan lines, color, sex, creed, etc. - we ALL want the same things love, safety and the potential of a future. for those of us to whom being different is not different - it needs to start with us. forgiveness is hard to do sometimes, but if you can see that we all bleed the same, cry the same, are afraid the same, then maybe you can see a little bit of yourself in them. you don’t have to like everyone, but you can accept them for them.

it takes a strong person to move past their fears, someone like a mr. galloway may prefer to hide behind that wall of fear, but he bleeds and hurts just like me. just like you. leave them their views - and make the choices that will help make the world a safer, more peaceful place for all.

peace.

Just for the record - The normalcy of the Civilization of Ancient Greece was homosexuality.  Marriage occurred strictly to have kids.  The true union/love/ etc was between men.  Even though it did not last forever(490BC to 323BC)and “imploded”, as Tom so eliquently put, the remnants of that civilization are advanced and quite amazing- the very birth of theatre, classical architecture, our current principles of Geometry, the scientific advances of Archimedes, and sculpture.  In fact the basis of many of our current words come from this civilization.  For instance the word chronological comes from the Ancient Greek God, Chronos, who was the first God after the Titans, and was considered the “beginning of time” - hence chrono(time) and chronological.  And finally .... the very essence of the US Rule of Government - Democracy, the reason why we can all even have this discussion with free speech is based on the Ancient Greek model - which they invented. 

As for the “sanctity” of marriage - if we are all supposed to follow the bible(although my bible is the Constition, which advocates freedom of religion any religion which would therefore most include the right NOT to believe. ) then let us discuss marriage

According to your “biblical” view of marriage women should be still be considered the chattel of men!(there goes that darn 19th amendment)

Tom, I believe you are sincere, yet misinformed.  But I never question your right to speak your mind - because my “bible” tells me that we have the right of free speech it is in passage/Amendment 1.

Tom,

You might recall that your Founding Fathers weren’t exactly opposed to SLAVERY.  Neither was the language of the day written to include women. 

So while they were progressive for their time, your Founding Fathers were still men with feet of clay.  Fallible.

That line “show me an advanced civilization that was built by a bunch of gay and lesbian couples”.  That’s such an ignorant comment it’s almost laughable.  I’ll give you one name, and ask you if our civilization would be richer or poorer without him.  Michelangelo Carravaggio.  Yes, I’m talking about the man who painted the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel.

margaret is exercising her constisution right to free speech, but mostly she is exercising her human right to be who she is and say what she feels. if your are offended could it be that the truth hurts?

carry on margaret!! are you bringing your show to texas? i’ll be there!!

I’m sooo sick of having to defend human rights, and I’m only 17. First of all, what people call morals is nothing more than opinions. I’m a heterosexual but I am in favor of gay rights and marriage, just as i would be in favor for civil rights. There is no way that homosexuals will ruin society. Just because some gay people wed does not mean that im going to. There will still be plenty of heterosexuals to overpopulate this earth. Second of all, we live in the 21st century!!! Things change with the time, the only issue is people accepting change. Until we learn to embrace and accept changes in society the world will never be at peace. So with that I bid you PEACE.

Oh, Margret!  I want to be just like you when I grow up!  Thank you for your courage, intelligence, and wit. You are an inspiration to me.

Whoa...rewind...back up…

Did anybody else notice that Tom Galloway referred to the Bible as ‘history’? Hello?

Look, I’m not opposed to anybody’s FAITH (unlike too many religious bigots I’ve met) but unless and until we start calling people when they subvert the public discourse with weird shit like ‘my personal belief system is fact’, we aren’t going anywhere.

Mr. Galloway: The Bible is NOT ‘history’.

referring back to the article - the comment made by Sam in a moment of heat to ms. cho - it’s during periods of anger, fear when the things we hide inside come out. it’s obvious mr. galloway felt threatened by the comments made here.

the bible was interpreted by men over a great span of time. and like rumours, each incident became more and more embellished over time. now interpreted as being ‘truth’.

marriage was an unholy institution meant to enslave women and suppress their rights to life, liberty & the pursuit of happiness. the bible permitted multiple wives, a woman had to happily carry a child born of rape. she had less rights than a dog.

if our country was built based on the doctrines set forth in the historical bible, is it any wonder we are in the state of emergency that we are in?

we need more people like ms. cho to keep carrying the message until we are heard and people start to face their fears.  then maybe we will have true peace one day for everyone.

peace people.

Tom, Since around 10% of people are gay name one Civilization that was not built by gay people! Civilizations are built by all the people who live there not just some.

My, my, such vigor! I just like her comedy. Like all good art, it exposes the truth, in her many spelendored, ugly glory.

I am not going to rip anyone apart, I have my views, and you have yours. I will say, however, that anything born of hate is evil. If you truly believe that homosexuality is wrong, your hatful attitude (no, I am not focusing on any one person here) negates your position.

Since the Bible is being thrown about, how about this one, the part where JC says you will know them by thier fruit. A good tree produces good fruits, a bad tree will grow only bad. I am friends with many homosexual people, I can only dream of being as wonderful people as some of them. And, I know many stait people who are unholy terrors.

Conslusion: it is the individual person, and thier actions, thier fruit, that matters.

Kristin, the Constitution doesn’t guarantee “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” That’s the Declaration of Independence, you idiot.  Feel free to keep your mouth shut about constitutional law from now on.

My, Ted, aren’t we nice. And since mudslinging is clearly the American Way, more power to you, the logic of your argument was surpassed by your incredible delivery.

Constitutional or not, the ideals are part of the American ethos and creed.

And, it does say this:

“We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.”

I fail to see that these disputes promote domestic tranquility, welfare, and they certainly do NOT relate to the blessings of liberty. In fact, they are limiting.

Interesting. Feel free to correct me, but my recallection is that the constitution and its admendments usually have to do with adding liberty to the People and limiting the powers of the Goverment. The idea of a consistitional amendment designed to limit freedom, a good freedom made available only to some, is abhorant.

I can only hope that such ideas die the death that all such do, and are recalled only in shame that we ever thought such.

Mari

Mari,
The Constitution protects the minority. We have a Constitutional Democracy in this nation, not one based on what the majority of the people want. Elections as such are on the state and local levels.
It’s why there are no elections for amending the Constitution. It’s up to lawmakers to do that.
As far as interpretation, the Supreme Court rules and many times they have rightly struck down such laws. It’s a difficult job to interpret a document written in the late 1700’s that is still the basis for which laws are made in the 21st century.
This is why Bush and flunkies are trying to pass an amendment--the Supreme Court would have no choice but to uphold it, regardless of their personal feelings. It would be the basis of all state and local laws from that point on.
But this doesn’t stop justice’s interpretations going along political lines. It’s why appointments are so important, so fought over.

I say, keep hanging yourself Bush. Keep pissing people off and see what November brings.

May all the Gods bless Margaret Cho.

She’s an all-around beautiful person with such important things to say - and a wonderful way of saying them.

Professing to be wise - they became fools…

Romans 1:18-32 Mercy & forgiveness is available!

The whole “gay-marriage” issue is just a diversion during this adminstration. The real issue is this country’s crumbling economy. The great majority of manufacturing, IT and customer services jobs are now overseas. Corporations are buying other corporations who then buy other corporations - leaving thousands unemployed and with little choice of employers. Bush says the unemployment rates are dropping - you know where those professional unemployed are working? - 2 to 3 jobs at Starbucks, Walmart, Target, etc.
We have the best medical care in the world - if you can afford it or even have access to it. Doctors are leaving their professions due to astronomical malpractice insurance rates. Pharmaceutical and medical insurance corporations are running our healthcare...should I keep going! Gay marriage is again just a diversion.
MARGARET...GO KICK ASS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A sincere question from one who hasn’t made up his mind on this issue:

What about the institution of marriage is so appealing to the gay community?  I assume there is something other than the formality/paperwork that is appealing regarding marriage.

Is there something about marriage as, say civil unions, that makes them more desirable?  Are there certain rights that come to married couples that were not guaranteed to coupes in civil unions?  And if so, what was the debate issues on those particular differences?

Thanks for your time.

The Bible is a historical document the same way Beowulf, The Iliad and the Odyssey, Gilgamesh and Grimm’s Fairy Tales are historical documents. They document the history of human’s need for folktales and mythology.

Being in one of the “battleground states” I can say that this whole issue will only take a matter of months to play itself out.  President Bush has the worst record of any President in history and that will speak to itself.  He relys on his right wing christians to protect him, but during the debates America will see he still has no idea about what is going on in America let alone the rest of the world. 

As far as Margaret Cho is concerned she is practicing her right as an American citizen and expressing her beliefs.  If you don’t like it, don’t go see her shows, don’t come to her web sites, and ignore her.  What is posting hateful comments and sending her hate mail going to do besides prove that what she’s saying is true? 

As far as the gay issue goes, I am a gay man and while I believe that we should be entitled the same privaleges as heterosexual couples I don’t want marriage attatched to my relationships.  I think the heterosexuals have destroyed the “sanctity” of marriage over the past 20 years.  In an era where Britney Spears can get married and annulled in a few hours, a TV show can have couples find their husband/wife picked by an audience, and the rate of failed marriages exceeds 52%, I don’t think we as the GLBT community should want that attatched to our relationships.  I agree inclusion is important, but why fight to get the same name as something as tragic as “Marriage” has become in this country.

For the comments about civilizations being ruined by gays having the rights to marry, Canada has yet to fall, neither has most of Europe, and China is doing better than we are as a country.  I didn’t see any facts to base that statement up so I assume it was just beliefs.

A final note on our “president”, when you represent The United States of America you represent all it’s people, not just the rich, white, christian, straight, republicans.  Our President has used every excuse to divide this country and every move he has done has been under “God”.  Well some people don’t believe in God, some people believe in different forms of a “God”, and my biggest issue is that he’s so crossed the line of seperation of church and state it’s not funny.  I think we need to stop the mudslinging and let Mr. Bush hang himself on the issues, which is poor econonimics, lies about why our 1,002 troops have died in Iraq, rising education costs, no new net jobs created (the first president since the great depression to get that distinction), and a complete disregard for any other country.

Whatever your position let’s respect each other and realize we are all human and deserve if not acceptance then respect.

Peace.

Aren’t we all created in the image and likeness of God? In that case, shouldn’t we respect and love one another unconditionally as God does? Why do people like Tom Galloway feel the need to spread hate and fear? God does not teach us to treat one another as Tom does. I think that he needs to reread the Bible in order to find the true meaning of God’s message....to respect one another’s differences and be peaceful and loving towards each other. It’s very simple Tom. So many Christians feel the need to “do God’s work”, but that is only their ego speaking. Do you think that you are more powerful than God? That it is your duty to judge His creations? God is fully capable of taking care of His work without your help. If you really want share His message, then why not choose loving words instead of wasting your energy with hateful and judgemental words?
Signed, A truly loving Christian.

Lets hope Margaret continues to speak out,the idea that some people have the right to determine something as private as who one can marry is frightening,and for all those so called Christians,until you can meet Christ’s dictate about casting stones,your time would be better spent trying to get your own asses into heaven.

First and foremost: Go, go, Margaret Cho!

But Southern_tier_guy brings up an interesting point… First, a disclaimer: I am straight, married, moderate-to-progressive, and not Xtian. In no way do I believe homosexuality to be evil, and I firmly believe in the right of EVERYBODY to live according to their own consciences.

But what is it about gay “marriage”? Marriage is a word that has so much baggage to it. So many times it’s become a mocking parody of itself with its expectations of bliss, ardor and permanence. Also, it has religious overtones, even though it’s legally a secular institution in many nations. You go to the courthouse and get legally married, then have your big Church Wedding. I don’t believe anybody should try to tell any church that their religious foundation for “marriage” needs to include this-or-that type of union, rather I think that the state should stop legally marrying people altogether and create strictly civil unions that can legally bind ANY 2 (or even more) people, giving them rights of probate, shared benefits and powers-of-attorney given next-of-kin.

Take the strain off that nasty M-word and get on with life already.

“Is there something about marriage as, say civil unions, that makes them more desirable?  Are there certain rights that come to married couples that were not guaranteed to coupes in civil unions?  And if so, what was the debate issues on those particular differences?”

If you wanted, you could sit down and build a brand new legal entity, “civil commitment” and pore through state and federal law to give it each and every legal right and benefit of a “marriage.” (and there are many, so this would take a lot of time).  It still wouldn’t be the same, since civil unions don’t get the benefit of federal marriage tax benefits, so you’d have to re-write the IRS code, and you’d also have to repeal the Defense of Marriage Act.  You wouldn’t be able to get social security benefits if your “civil commitment” partner died, the same way you would if you were married. since that’s also a federal right.  Not enough room here to continue with all those details. 

But the thing that stings is when a certain group of people try to “own” an institution, when that’s not even possible to do.  Marriage is a contract between a couple, but also by extension, their families and communities.  At most weddings, a couple’s friends and family are asked to help support and guide the newly-weds, to be good people and members of their communities.  By helping my straight friends by sitting for their kids, or helping them process an argument with their spouse, I help support my friends’ marriage, but also my community.  I suppose all this could be done in reverse in a civil commitment, but denying “marriage” while giving all the other legal rights away in a civil commitment seems to me a “separate but equal” argument, and Brown v. Board dictates those shouldn’t fly.

No gay person wants to prevent straight people from marrying.  We don’t want the divorce rate to increase.  We know the futility of trying to dictate someone’s orientation, so we’ve no interest in “recruiting,” as it were.  We want to have access to the very best ideals of the institution, and not the sorry seconds the majority sees fit to leave us with. 

If “marriage is for procreation,” do we deny it to post-menopausal women?  To infertile couples?  Do we put a time limit--say 5 years--in place, so that the marriage would be instantly nullified if no kids were born or adopted within that time? 

Like the above, many of the arguments against marriage for GLBT folks just seem disingenuous to me.  “Because I said so, and most other people agree with me!!!”

I have just read through most of this column and I am humbled.  To think that an issue like this can be something to divide a nation is beyond belief.  When compared to China and nations of the Middle East who can trace their history back for thousands of years, this country is still in it’s infancy.  We have pushed harder and worked harder and advanced more than any nation in history.

We can’t even decide who we are.  Are we Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans, Latin Americans or what.  The only thing I see wrong in this country is pride.  Everyone is so concerned about “Dig Me” that they don’t get it that we live and die as a nation by who and what WE are.  If someone is gay, so be it.  Personally, I’m not but I don’t care is others chose that way of life.  To bash any of them because they don’t believe the same way that you do is idiocy run amok.

When everyone steps back and takes a look at the whole picture and realizes that they are not the center of the universe, only then will things start to come together.  When we reach a point where someone can say something about this country that makes you blood boil, and you accept it because you under stand that they have the same right to voice their feelings and opinions that you have, then we will have accomplished something.  Then we will begin to leave a legacy that our children can embrace. 

For the holy rollers, yours is the way that it was, and may one day be again, only God and time will tell.  For the ones who claim there is no God, if you’re right I hope they called off hell too.  For the gays that want to be treated equally and fairly, stop trying to show the whole world how different you are.  Be who you want to be.  Remember “You know the world is off tilt when the best rapper is a white guy, the best golfer is a black guy, the tallest basketball player is Chinese, Germany doesn’t want to go to war, and the French are accusing Americans of being arrogant.”

Peace

Humor is such a survival characteristic.  I think it is actually what has allowed us humans to survive our own short-sighted anti-survival behaviors: like still responding to new situations and to anything or anyone different than us or our immediate clan with anger, fear, & mistrust.  We seem to use humor most to dilfuse intense feelings, ours or others.

Unlike most women comedians, Ms. Cho does not use humor to dimish herself or others.  I always get the feeling her goal is to see herself, and others, more clearly and in sharing her insights and experiences with us, to help us to see ourselves, and others, more clearly.  All my favorite comedians do that: Whoppi Goldberg, Steve Martin, Billy Crystal, Robin Williams, Lilly Tomlin, Margaret Cho.

With humor we can get past ourselves, some would say: get over ourselves.  As a species, we take ourselves and our opinions far too seriously.  Whatever god or gods or goddess or goddesses we believe in, if we look closely at their creations, we gotta laugh.  You don’t think that whoever/whatever you believe in has a warped sense of humor?  Look in the mirror.  Look in the mirror our comedians hold out to us.  See how absolutely funny and wonderful we are.

It seems to me that whatever/whoever we believe in, it’s like spitting in their face to hate, fear & distrust their creations, any of them, including ourselves.  It seems to me that instead of preaching, we should practice, and that if we all practiced in our daily lives what we profess to believe, then we could lead/teach by example, which, as we all know, is more powerful than mere words.

Thank you, Ms. Cho, for leading by example.

Go,Maggie go, chonmaneyo…
and shipseykiya you haters!!!

I do keep reading everyone’s comments with interest. It scares me how much hate is mulling around out there. I for one am NOT moving to the back of the bus. I hope you GLBTand Q will all stand your ground because the times are a changing and while we may never reap the benefits, we can only hope the world will be safer for future generations and they can have the liberties we lack.

I used to be a fan of your until I read this article.  There are so many things I disagree with, for example, same sex marriages should be outlawed, reproductive rights are not in danger but “babies” not fetus’ are in danger.  Partial birth abortions are just legalized MURDER!!  I think that the ACLU was originally a good idea that has gone bad.  And THANK GOD, YES I SAID GOD, Kerry is not the only choice.

Hey, I am BISEXUAL !  I can fall in love with a man or a woman. It doesn’t matter to me what they look like on the outside. It matters what people look like on the inside. Why does the government have the right to tell me whom I can legally love? I have a successful career, pay taxes, treat people politely.... I am a nice guy.

Let’s give the religous conservatives a whole new group of people to worry about !!!

RE:  Stan

Just wanted to clarify something you said on August 27th.  You said, “A person is born gay and doesn’t just choose to be.”

But a person is not “born” gay, it is something that a person “chooses” to be!!

RE: Elizabeth

Actually Elizabeth it has been scientific fact for the past several years that there is a genetic link in homosexuality that is in a persons DNA from the time of conception.  There are many studies and information in the library (as if you ever go to one) so maybe doing some research before spouting off your “personal opinions” would be great.  Thanks.

I agree with Ms. Cho, and admire her guts and talent.  Only one thing bothers me, when she states:

“What we need to do as progressives and liberals is get some of that confidence back, that unabashed feeling that we’re totally in the right...we need more confidence in our own point of view.”

Confidence is one thing, and boy, do we need more of it.  But a feeling of complete self-assurance, that one is totally in the right, can only be a dangerous thing.  I forget who said it, and I’m probably misquoting a bit, but “as soon as you have a number of people who are convinced that they’re right, they’re wrong.” (can someone help out and correct me on this?).

It’s the kind of self-righteous arrogance oozing from the likes of Dick Cheney that has me so scared.  And why?  Because he and his kind are convinced that they are totally in the right.  It’s the same attitude that drives Michael Moore to distort and misrepresent, to give his enemies more ammunition, and to ruin what could be truly effective filmmaking.

“The best lack all conviction/While the worst are full of passionate intensity.” I know that one for sure:  W.B Yeats. I don’t think he was taking sides, but we can.  I just think that nobody’s ever 100% right, and nobody’s 100% wrong, so let’s be very, very careful.

Thank you, Ms. Cho.  And may I say, you’re looking great.

In repsonse to your comments Steven, I do know what a library is and I go to them often.  Just because my opinion is different than your does not make me stupid!!  I never implied that anyone who has made comments in this area was stupid, but you just did!!  Talk about discrimination!!  But getting back to the subject, let me state it differently, you “may” be born with “some” genetic link to homosexuality in your DNA but you still choose to be “gay” by your actions.

Well guess what Elizabeth - I choose to be gay and I am proud of it!!  And the gods loves me.

Well Elizabeth you’re the one who has shown your stupidity on this board, not by having a difference of opinion than myself or others, but by making a comment that had no facts behind it other than your opinion.  So yes you showed your stupidity, it has nothing to do with discrimination. 

The only choice that is involved is whether you live or not, if you’re born gay what are you to do?  Pretend not to be and hide out in a marriage where you’re miserable?  Or cheat on your spouse like so many men from generations ago did?  Live secret lives?  God created us and we were born gay, which tells me God doesn’t make mistakes and we’re here for a reason!  Everyone can’t be like you Elizabeth!  Everyone isn’t straight.  So get over it, its not like we’re doing it on your kitchen table, so why do you care so much?  How does this effect you?  It doesn’t, so mind your own business and we’ll all live our lives happily ever after!

I posted a comment congratulating Ms. Cho for taking a stand for gay rights. This forum published something completely, utterly different from another Elizabeth. It is probably purely coincidence, but I hate getting mail criticizing a view which I by no means support. I would like to lodge a formal complaint.

The last time we combined politics and religion…
People were burned at the stake. Enough said.

I’d rather believe in something unpopular thar provides strength than something popular that accepts everything, and therefore stands for nothing.  That is why I stand with Jesus and the Bible, and probablt why most people are not liberals.

God made Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve. 

Someone asked “What would Jesus do”, well the Bible says he destroyed Sodom and Gomora.  Homosexuality is a mockery to what God made us to be. And before you mention it Jesus and God are the same.

Why don’t we just go out and marry animals or multiple people?

I don’t hate liberals or Democrats or Gays or any one for that matter, but I do hate the lawlessness and lack of morals.  I’m sorry, we are not born gay.  Talk to any gay person and all of them had some kind of tragic child hood (No father, abuse, death, rape etc..).

Let’s face it.  This is not issues about Liberalism and Conservatisim, it’s about people who believe in God and people who don’t (many Liberals)

I know every liberal is not immoral or gay or whatever they get stereotyped as but the majority of the liberals hate work, believe in socialism (everyone should be the same no matter how hard anothe works to achieve something), are immoral, don’t want to obey laws but rather be anarcists and can’t seem to be happy.

If you don’t believe in God or believe that what the Bible says it’s true...You BETTER be right.

Why can Buddah or Mohammed or Greek Gods, Roman Gods etc freely be talked about in Public schools, the work place, home or anywhere and people are fine with it, but when they hear the name Jesus they go “off the handle”?

Margaret Cho has more courage than any African-American sports star in the world. And it’s African-American blallplayers who should be on the front lines standing up to the bigotry and denial of opportunity for Blacks that permeates our society. Keep on doing that thang, Marg…

Margaret contends that “conservatives are so incredibly arrogant about their point of view.”

And then a few paragraphs later she says this about their points of view:

“People get so stupid and angry that they incriminate themselves with their own stupidity...As a comedian, I actually find it kind of beautiful how stupid people are!”

Now, you tell me who the arrogant one is.

The Bible is a historical document written down by man narrated by God.  God breathed the words and it was.  Man may have passed it from generation to generation but God’s will is what has kept it intact.  Call me as ignorant as you want, it only shows your inability to accept different opinions.

Sorry, but as I was reading thru the responses, thoughts came to mind, but the response from Cincy particularly made me wonder.

Being a recovering Baptist from my upbringing in the household of minister/father, I had to chuckle when I read that age-old phrase from Cincy:  “God made Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Steve...” but it doesn’t say that Adam and Eve had any daughters, so the question is raised, with whom did Cain, the murdered Abel, and the later son Seth procreate?  Their mother?  Or did Adam and Eve have daughters and were they promoting incest?  All questions which make one rather uncomfortable, or at least ought to...Hey Cincy, doesn’t seem like A&E;and offspring were too moral, so leave them out of the conversation, ‘kay?

And when Cincy says: “the Bible says he destroyed Sodom and Gomora.  Homosexuality is a mockery..” not as much of a mockery as not even being able to spell Gomorrah...what would Jesus do?  At least he would have used spell-check or looked it up first, oh yeah, it’s the word of God, so he wrote it in the first place…

“Why don’t we just go out and marry animals or multiple people?” multiple marriages WERE common-place, and biblical, perhaps we should...and would a human-animal marriage be okay if they were of opposite genders?

Cincy also writes, “This is not issues about Liberalism and Conservatisim, it’s about people who believe in God and people who don’t (many Liberals),” but that is the whole issue, NO LAW should be in effect here in the United States that is based upon God!  That is precisely the point people have been trying to make.  The country was originally settled AND founded by people who left Europe because they didn’t want to be subjected to state run/sponsored religions.  Thank you for making my point for me.

Again Cincy professes, “I know every liberal is not immoral or gay or whatever they get stereotyped as but the majority of the liberals hate work, believe in socialism (everyone should be the same no matter how hard anothe works to achieve something), are immoral, don’t want to obey laws but rather be anarcists and can’t seem to be happy.” Geez, where do I start?  Plain and simple, that is just a dumb statement, plain and simple...simple, kinda like Cincy…

“Why can Buddah or Mohammed or Greek Gods, Roman Gods...” if you’re going to mention Buddha, learn to spell it properly, please...again with the spell-check, ‘kay?

And to the Elizabeth whose ideas were called stupid, calling someone or their ideas isn’t discriminatory as you suggest.  If the webmaster wouldn’t publish your comments because they were contrary to popular opinions, THAT would be discrimination.  Calling your opinion stupid isn’t, and it was (stupid).

In the words of that sage Rodney King, “Why can’t we all just get along?”

“Actually Elizabeth it has been scientific fact for the past several years that there is a genetic link in homosexuality that is in a persons DNA from the time of conception.”

Steven could you please point me in the direction of this always quoted but ever-elusive bit of scientific “fact”.  I have searched for it yet have not come close to anything I would consider a scientific fact: a possible hypothesis, yes, but fact no.  It has yet to have been proven that there is any gene or genetic combination that denotes a person’s choice in sexual preference.  And yes it is a choice.  All too often people twist science to fit whatever their agenda seems to be at the time.  For instance, evolution has never been scientifically proven, the big bang theory is just that; yet these are what we pass as truths in our society because the alternative seems to...restrictive.  I recall a time when it was thought smoking was genetic.  However now we cannot pass taxes and “snuff” out smokers and their habit fast enough.

A call to arms is in order here, since the subject has turned to the right wing “religious”. I personally know two people (a cousin and ex brother in law) who went to a Christian detox clinic (as did GW Bush). Today, they are both Jesus cultists who become extremely upset at the mention of Bush’s crimes or scandals. All Democrats and liberals should begin to loudly label these people for what they are. They are the PERVERTORS of Christianity who, rather than follow the teachings of Christ by living by example, they prefer to make others into zombies without any thinking on the part of these victims… for monetary and political purposes as well as their twisted concept of the Bible. They want to bypass their subject’s free will given by God. Isn’t that the point of free will...to turn to God of the free will given by HIM? To usurp the “God given free will” is a serious offense to Christianity and these charlatans should be routinely condemned in and out of every Christian church. Did anyone see the minister who took a group of twelve year olds (whose minds are barely developed) to see “The Passion” and witness how these kids came out of the theater screaming how much Jesus loves them? There is a sickness in this approach to “religion”. And these goose-stepping “religious” fanatics VOTE RELIGIOUSLY. And they love their guns…. worried a little? Funny…we have been chasing down fanatical religious “terrorists” around the globe, yet we never seem to shut down the Republican voting so called “Christian warrior” types who call for violence right here in America. What happened to the anthrax investigation, where anthrax was sent to LIBERAL congressmen and broadcasters? Is John Ashcroft (our right wing religious head of law enforcement) afraid to prosecute or embarrass his brothers in this sick movement? I knew that investigation was dead on arrival when Tom Dacshle and various abortion clinics were on the receiving end of such letters. I call this writing a “call to arms” because in my opinion…to those who want to outlaw guns… do we really want a society where the only people to have guns will be the criminals, the government, conservatives and right wing religious fanatics? Why do you think we prosecuted the Klan relentlessly seventy years ago (by 1925 they had four million members) Imagine the voting intimidation in a given region when one segment of the population is overtly or covertly armed. The Nazi’s were masters of this form of intimidation as they would enter a small town (remember the Florida group who shut down the recount?) and by their presence and reputation for being armed (the Sturm Abteilung or “storm troopers” were also around four million in 1930) would frighten the town to vote Nazis into the German Parliament. Often, anyone who disagreed with them would simply disappear into the “night and fog” (the “Nacht und Nebel” tactic) It was only forty years ago that “Jim Crow” laws were in effect in the south, and there are many that still remember when federal troops were dispatched by a President to de-segregate and end the apartheid. I will not be an outrageous alarmist, warning of a looming civil war. With conservatives controlling all three branches of our government as well as three quarters of all governorships, goose stepping zombie like voters, the backing of big business, and the southern “states righter” (confederates) there won’t be a need for war. A little visit from Ashcroft’s friends might be all that’s needed.

I am very scared by Bush. He is trying to ammend a document that has meant freedom to take away the basic rights of a person who does not live their life according to the way he believes they should. If he was trying to change the constitution to say that any other minority group was not allowed to be married he would no longer be the president.

If you are wondering i am not gay. The idea that gay marriage would ruin the insitution of marrage is sad. I agree with andy rooney, if you want to protect marriage make illegal to get a divorce not get married.

to southern_tier_guy
there are legal and finacial privileges that come with marriage .

It’s funny how sports and movie stars who make millions of dollars and could afford to lose a few endorsements over political stands have very little to say about the course the country is taking and is still in. Margaret Cho has more courage than any of them and she probably doesn’t make millions nor get endorsements. We should teach our young people to admire people like Margaret, rather than idiots like Alan Iverson, Barry Bonds and Randy Moss.

corey,

the body of scientific information on sexual orientation formation does clearly indicate a biological etiology.  however, i agree with your position that people choose to have sex (and consequently choose who to have sex with).

Seuxal orientation is a PREDISPOSITION.  Much in the way that people may have a particular tempermental predisposition or, even better, a predisposition to grow to a certain height.  Depending on a number of factors, these predispositions may or may not be fully realized.

Gay people argue that their behavior should be in line with their predisposition just as heterosexual people express their predisposition in their behavior.  It is a matter of integrity, a high ethical/moral principle. It is a matter of equality under law, which our ideals and our Constitution demand.

Hey Cincy, You are WRONG.  God did make Adam and Steve and Bill and Bob, and Jane and Tammy, and well all of us.  And God loves us.  I do think however, that the hurricanes in Florida are God’s wrath for them screwing up the last election and perhaps a warning that they had better get it right this year.

Sorry Toshav, if you use the argument of predisposition then you indicate that like a sociopath, or schizophrenic there is the opportunity to correct such a predisposition through pharmacology and behavioral modification.
Groups like Exodus International are proving successful in these efforts which is one of the reasons for my disagreement with same-sex marriage and gay behavior in general. To those who take the time to explore the “seedier” side of the web you will find an overwhelming “predisposition” for “bi-sexuality” in married couples and singles. Is this normal? Who knows. Not our psychologists or psychiatrists. They were sold out by the political pressures placed on their governing bodies.
In the 70’s that rampant promiscuity was considered abnormal psychological behavior, now its called exploring your sexuality. 

If you want to live in a world without morals, and prefer to consider the Bible just a book of mythos and tales, then you need to be really afraid and should be quaking in your little liberal boots. Its not the Christian, Jewish or Islamic orthodoxy you need to worry about, its the amoral, evolution-believing, humanistic, atheist that you should fear. He/She/Shemale is the one who could decide at any given moment that this “random” evolutionary experiment has run its course and should be reset - Heaven (whoops, that’s not PC)- goddesses and nanobots help us, because if any of these “persons” work in any industry where they have access to biological, pharmacological or chemical agents, then I guess you’ll have to wait another billion(in atheist years) to have this discussion all over again.

...of course that’s if the random assortment of enzymes in the primordial goop form in the right order, otherwise we’ll have this conversation as intelligent lizards.

It’s “in your face” celebrities that turn people off to particular issues.  The presidency is one of them.  The nasty attitudes and brazen personal attacks on Bush have the opposite effect the attacker is after. Celebrities like Cho simply cannot grasp this concept. Simply put, people like Margaret Cho do not help their causes...they hinder them.

it just looks like everybody is trying to out do everybody else.  I like how JOSE stated that gay marriage is just a diversion. Being gay, i believe who cares even if the country bands gay marriage. Yeah, it would be nice if we would all just let it go and move on with more important things. I believe if a man loves another man, or woman loves another women, then love. Who needs a paper or property or anything to show that you are married. love is the only thing that will keep the marriage last. If they band it, let them, and maybe China will soon take over and we can still be concered over dumb issues like gay-marriage. like who cares if a man and a man marry. It’s no of my buisness if another man/woman want to marry the same sex. People, move on with your lives and accept people for who they are. I just got real anger reading the comments so i just had to post something.

Ms. Cho, you dont need me to tell you this but you are amazing and talent. I love how you speak your mind and speak it well. You are just like me but i wish i had a microphone and an audience.

If you can not accept homosexuality now, i dont know if you can accept humanity at all. People are different and not cookie-cutters(Thank God). Everybody just get on and keep on buying Marget Cho’s videos cause she is funny, and it brings us together. 

i bet i’ve seen and been through so much more than many people have.  Today, i went to Six Flags, (being gay day) and saw activist outside with banners and bashing gay individuals. Does that make you a good person. But besides the point, get on with your life. They looked like fools in the hot weather chanting while i was having fun. i just laugh.  Invest in stoping drugs, drinking and driving, and matters that actually are a problem to society.  but what do i know, im only 18. and i see that already. I’ve lost my family and friends through many other situations and i dont remember homosexuality being a factor of taking any of their lives. Homosexuality is just a stereotype, but what do i know, im only 18. see you in hollywood.

“I’ve gotten incredible amounts of hate mail, especially in this last year. It’s amazing how much people get threatened and angry when you I want to bring a different perspective and criticize their ignorance. People get so stupid and angry that they incriminate themselves with their own stupidity. It’s amazing how much racism and homophobia there is, and how people use it to justify their opinions. As a comedian, I actually find it kind of beautiful how stupid people are! It’s kind of delightful in that I know it’s real and it’s something to contend with.”

Wow she is really tolerant of different viewpoints and boy those other people that disagree with her are haters and arrogant.

She obviously is full of hate. She is a hater from the left and feels the scorn from the haters on the right.  I believe the views of the radical left or right isn’t what is going to more this country in the right direction.  Anyone looking up to the radical left Cho should hear the views of someone like Tammy Bruce former President of the NOW and an openly gay person and make their decisions after hearing another side to the issue.

wow, after i realized there was a second page, i read some more. NO PEOPLE CANNOT CHOOSE TO BE GAY. Did you chose to be straight, um.. i don’t think so. that is one pet-pev of mine. being younger, i tried so hard to be striaght and “chose” to be striaght but i lied to myself. I almost lost my life trying to “choose”.
did you choose your parents, your siblings, your eye color, etc..  tell me how a 4 year old boy “chooses” to like boys. And wow, no being gay doesn’t evolve in childhood trama. you’ve been talking to the wrong gay people, or were they the ones in your trailer park? my life was perfect when i knew i was, oh i guess being loved means you will be gay.

The real issue is this country’s crumbling economy. THE ECONOMY IS CYCLICAL THE KEY IS TO KEEP THE RECESSIONS (the lows) TO A MINIMUM AND GET THROUGH IT.  THE RECESSION STARTED IN MONTH 4 OF BUSH’S ADMINISTRATION DURING WHICH THE GOVERNMENT WAS STILL UNDER THE CLINTON BUDGET.  ALSO 9/11 HAPPENED AND THE MONEY WE HAD TO SPEND DOMESTICALLY & OVERSEAS TO PROTECT OURSELVES.  IT"S NOT CRUMBLING.  ALAN GREENSPAN WHO WORKED FOR BOTH DEMOS AND REPUBS OVER THE YEARS SAID THAT THE BUSH TAX CUTS SHORTENED THE RECESSION AND WAS THE RIGHT THING TO DO AND IT IS HEADED IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.  THE SKY IS NOT FALLING.

Corporations are buying other corporations who then buy other corporations - leaving thousands unemployed and with little choice of employers. Bush says the unemployment rates are dropping - you know where those professional unemployed are working? - 2 to 3 jobs at Starbucks, Walmart, Target, etc. THE UNEMPLOYMENT RATE IS THE SAME AS IT WAS WHEN CLINTON GOT REELECTED.  WHEN I GO TO STARBUCKS I SEE KIDS WORKING.  WHAT IS YOUR SOLUTION?  SHOULD THE GOV’T TAKE OVER THE COMPANIES?  SOUNDS LIKE COMMUNISM WHICH DOESN"T WORK.  WE KNOW THAT FOR A FACT.

We have the best medical care in the world - if you can afford it or even have access to it.  YOU SAID IT-THE BEST MEDICAL CARE IN THE WORLD.  WHY DO YOU THINK THAT IS?  LET THE GOVERNMENT TAKE IT OVER AND SEE HOW GREAT IT WILL BE. YOU’LL HAVE INSURANCE FOR EVERYONE BUT YOU’LL DIE IN LINE WAITING FOR YOUR OPERATION.  WHY DO YOU THINK EVERYONE COMES HERE FOR HEALTHCARE?

Doctors are leaving their professions due to astronomical malpractice insurance rates. DUE TO TRIAL LAWYERS LIKE JOHN EDWARDS.  THE TRIAL LAWYERS HAVE THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY IN THEIR POCKET.  THE HATED BUSH WANTS TO LIMIT THE MALPRACTICE SUITS.  HOW MANY DOCTORS WILL LEAVE IF THE GOVERNMENT SETS PRICES?  TALENT GOES WHERE THE MONEY IS.  IT’S CALLED A MARKET ECONOMY.

Pharmaceutical and medical insurance corporations are running our healthcare WHO SHOULD RUN OUR HEALTHCARE THE GOVERNMENT?...should I keep going!

Gay marriage is again just a diversion.

I’m sorry you had a hard life Margaret but hating people with such vigor won’t make your life better it will bring more hate back to you from other haters.

One thing that I find troubling when reading many of these comments is how many people have forgotten just what our government’s role is in our society.  If our founding fathers were followers of the English and Christian philosopher John Locke (as they all seemed to be to a greater or lesser extent) then they believed that the role of government was to give its citizens the freedom to work towards what for Locke was the primary goal of existence: achieving Christian salvation.  The key word here is freedom.  Government’s role was to allow people to exercise their God-given free will free from worries about the safety of their person or property.  It was, notably, NOT supposed to regulate moral issues that did not have a substantive negative impact on the ability of other people in the society to exercise their own free will.  This is the reason why there are laws against murder in this country, but not laws against coveting your neighbor’s wife.

When applied to the issue of gay marriage, it seems difficult, if not impossible, for anyone to make a reasonable argument showing that giving gay and lesbian couples the same legal rights as straight couples will infringe upon the liberties of anyone.  Whether or not you consider such relationships to be moral or immoral, I find it hard to believe that you can consider it the place of the government to limit people’s civil rights based upon their sexual preference.  If you believe that such preferences are immoral and are a sin, so be it, but the Bible makes it very clear that it is not your place to pass judgement on people making that choice, it is God’s.  Somehow, I don’t imagine that God thinks highly of people who try and do his job for him.  If you want to be seen as truly righteous and Godly, take some of the time, effort, and money you pour into fighting against gay marriage or railing against the “Godless liberals” and use it to help just one of the people in this country, or any other, that is facing the prospect of having no home, no food, or no family.

If for some reason you are interested, though honestly I don’t see that it should matter one iota in determining your response to this article, I am a straight, Christian, 22 year-old male and a political independent, though I will be voting for Kerry in the November election.

In closing, just take some time to consider my favorite passage from the Bible.  There’s more to it than first meets the eye.

“Be not overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good.” - Romans 12:21

“Many gay people want to use this research to promote gay rights. If gay people are ‘born that way,’ then discrimination against them must be wrong. ... A gay or lesbian person’s public identity, sexual behaviors, romantic relationships, or decisions to raise children are all choices. No theory suggests that these choices are genetic.”

Edward Stein, Ph.D., homosexual activist and author of The Mismeasure of Desire: The Science, Theory, and Ethics of Sexual Orientation, critically examines the research of both Dean Hamer and Simon LeVay that claims a biological origin to homosexuality.

FYI..
No one, including Hamer, has been able to replicate Hamer’s 1993 linkage study targeted of a possible marker on the X chromosome. Additionally, the Office of Research Integrity of the Department of Health and Human Services investigated Hamer when one of his research assistants claimed that Hamer withheld findings that were inconsistent with his conclusions. The National Cancer Institute transferred him to the National Institutes of Health, and the results of the investigation were never released.

A final thought…

Since I am PREDISPOSITIONED to be a Christian does that mean I should be able to pray at school, prech the gospel, view the ten commandments in public venues.  Also, I am PREDISPOSITIONED to be a smoker can i now smoke in theatres because I can’t help it and I demand equal rights.

Bryan,

Nice verse...here is another one…

Rom 1:26-27 For this reason God gave them up to dishonorable passions. Their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the men likewise gave up natural relations with women and were consumed with passion for one another, men committing shameless acts with men and receiving in their own persons the due penalty for their error.

I’ve been reading these postings and am amused by the vitriol being expressed.  Mainly by “good” liberals and homosexuals against “evil” conservatives and Christians.  Tsk, tsk, tsk.  And I thought you guys were so broadminded.
Well, to inform you, the Bible does not “support” multiple wives.  It reports it.  The kings and others had more then one wife but not with God’s blessing.  God has stated from the beginning that marriage was “one man and one woman.”
Lets see, in 1000BC just where was the woman who was pregnant of a rape supposed to go to take care of it?  Her local Kosher abortion clinic?  I don’t think that she and her family were happy about the situation but, what to do, what to do?
As for the Bible being embellished and changed, well let me give you a little information.  The Old Testament was copied, laboriously, letter for letter, by Rabbis and Kings.  If any error was made the writer had to scrape it out with a knife or razor.  If it could not be corrected it was thown out and burned and he had to start over.  The error rate in the Old Testament is wa-a-a-y less then 1%. 
As for the New Testament. There are thousands (I wish I could underline that) of ancient documents with all or part of the New Testament in it.  There is no other ancient work in all the world with more extant documentation, some of which date back to the 1st or 2nd century.  There is no written document in the world which is more poured over, studied, scrutinized, criticized, debated, examined, picked apart, loved, and hated then the Bible, particularly the New Testament. The rate of error in the New Testament is somewhat less then 1% to 2% also.  Also, if you ever read a Bible you will note that many of them state in the footnotes when a certain stories’ veracity may be in question.  Christians and Bible historians are not trying to cover up anything.
While we are at it, let’s discuss the statis of certain countries and continents held up as examples of rectitude.  Canada--where they have recently passed a law which allows the arrest, prosecution, and incarceration of a minister who quotes the Bible about God’s view of homosexuality to his own congregation in his own church.  Yes Canada is thriving as an example of the right of it’s citizens to have freedom of speech.  They are so superior to the US. Don’t you wish you lived there?  Which group is next, may I ask?
Europe--yes, here is an example of thriving culture.  They are not having children at such a rate that white, European culture may disappear altogether in less then 100 years. 
China--ah yes, China.  They are so superior to us because they don’t pay any attention to their homosexuals, are they?  They do, however, pay a lot of attention to certain other segments of their population.  Say, such as pregnant women who have the audacity to want a second child and are hauled off to an abortionist to have a forced abortion.  Or how about Christians?  They, and other religious groups, are imprisoned, tortured, murdered.  Their churchs are destroyed, their homes are knocked down.  They cannot meet in the open and must meet in secretive groups to worship God.  I believe God is going to give these martyrs a special blessing.  Yes China hasn’t fallen yet.  It’s just never risen out of it’s mire of corruption and dictatorial governance. 
While I’m on a roll, I’m going to deal with this myth that homosexuals are born that way.  I can’t remember the name of the person who did this “research” but it was debunked in several studies which followed his publication.  He, himself, was even forced to admit that his “research” was erroneous.  But he also said, with satisfaction, “that it was too late because now everyone would believe that homosexuals were born that way.” Homosexuals, unfortunately, are responsible for their behavior, before God, just like everyone else is.  Sad, isn’t it.
Thank you so much for the lessons I’ve received on the mindset of Liberal Thinking. 
Ignorance is such a comfort to those who wish to spew malice, don’t you think?

CHOey,

I was happy to see the interview above as it shows a lot of ignorance about conservatives which are indicative of the entire left.  You easily paint your responses with broad brushes that only show how uninformed you are.  Worse, while uninformed you react on impulse and dismiss a lot of people as “stupid people” while at the top of the list you sit.

Please keep talking, it really highlights your ridiculous views which are anathema to the rest of us.

Are all conservatives constipated?

Steve,

Perhaps you misunderstood the point of my post.  The point was not to attempt to defend homosexuality on biblical grounds, but to point out that it is not the role of our government or our society to punish people for it.  If you believe in the Bible, as you seem to, then you must acknowledge that it is God’s place to do that.  God gave humans free will to allow them to attempt to find Him on their own, not be forced into worshipping him by state doctrine.  After all, how can love that is coerced be love at all?

Our government was built on the founding principles of equal rights for all its human citizens, as our Supreme Court has repeatedly indicated in landmark decisions like Brown v. Board, etc.  Whether or not you personally like or approve of black people, white people, short people, tall people, straight people, or gay people, our laws say you are not allowed to discriminate against them based on these features of their person or character.  Giving straight couples legal rights that gay couples do not have is a blatant violation of this doctrine, and is therefore on very shaky legal footing at best.  It really is that simple.

To be quite honest, it saddens me to see so much hatred and vitriole expended over this issue as it highlights how Christianity has been perverted in the political sphere of our society.  Using Biblical principles to rationalize certain governmental actions while completely ignoring when the government’s actions are in blatant violation of other Biblical principles seems to me one of the worst forms of hypocrisy (which, I believe, is still a sin, no?).

Well as a true Christian, I accept that same-sex couples marry for love, loyalty, and everything that Christ had meant fo all mankind.  So following the ideas of Jesus, I say same-sex marriages should be allowed.

As a Christian, I oppose any hatred to single group.  Anti-gay, racist thoughts is not what true Christians are about.  Jesus Christ would be ashamed of those who call themselves Christians, yet are ruled by the satanic fear of hate and prejudice.  Being wise, education, and letting go of fear is being close to God.

there is no fire like greed,no crime like hatred,no sarrow like separation,no sickness like hunger of heart, and no joy like the joy of freedom.
as we have all seen so many freedoms stricken down these last few years, we should be afraid of what the next four could bring under this adminastration, and with all our combined passion for truth and freedom we must do what is right for ALL people.
Look within, be still,know what freedom is for you and if that is threatened VOTE! BECOUSE THAT IS YOUR RIGHT, THAT IS YOUR FREEDOM

KT,in answer to your question,vote Nader!He offers the best alternative to Bush and Bush-lite,speaks to the issues instead of getting embroiled in non-issues like Viet-Nam and gay marriage.We need an alternative in this country and Nader supplies it.So whatever your politics,vote!

THANK YOU, MARGARET!!!  We love you!

Thank you for doing so much to educate people regarding
God’s Law. I have learned a great deal from you all, and try to share that
knowledge with as many people as I can. When someone tries to defend the
homosexual lifestyle, for example, I simply remind them that Leviticus 18:22
clearly states it to be an abomination… End of debate.

I do need some advice from you, however, regarding some
other elements of God’s Laws and how to follow them.

1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both
male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A
friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can
you clarify? Why can’t I own Canadians?

2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as
sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do
you think would be a fair price for her?

3. I know that I am allowed no contact with a woman while
she is in her period of menstrual uncleanliness - Lev.15: 19-24. The problem
is how do I tell? I have tried asking, but most women take offense.

4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know
it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The
problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should
I smite them?

5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath.Exodus 35:2.
clearly states he should be put to death. Am I morally obligated to kill him
myself, or should I ask the police to do it?

6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating
shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than
homosexuality. I don’t agree. Can you settle this? Are there ‘degrees’ of
abomination?

7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of
God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I
wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20, or is there some
wiggle- room here?

8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed,
including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly
forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die?

9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a
dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves?

10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting
two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments
made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends
to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the
trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16.
Couldn’t we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do
with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14)

I know you have studied these things extensively and thus
enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am
confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us
that God’s word is eternal and unchanging.

Duncan,
This is absolutely hilarious!!! I come from a fundamentalist family...am gay...all family with one excepton loves my partner of 10 years. The exception is my brother, who of course calls me an “abomination”...I was welcome in his home(but not my partner), until the time i called him on the carpet for being selective with his bible verses because he allowed his daughter and her live in boyfriend to not only be in his home but, “gasp”!...stay overnight in the same bed!

Today my partner and I enjoy complete christian fellowship in our “open and affirming” Methodist church...where we are not “tolerated”...we are unconditionally loved and valued.

Thank you for such a great posting!
I hope you don’t mind me pasting it into some e-mails..( I would love to send it to my city newspaper, but wouldn’t do it without your permission. Is it original?

Gary

Duncan,

Very clever little post there.  I can only assume that you a scholar of the bible since you have a through knowledge of the Old Testament.  Therefore being a bible scholar you would also know that those laws are part of an old covenant and not the new covenant created by the shedding of Jesus’ blood.  Try getting further into the bible.  I suggest Mathew Chapter 5.

These laws were followed and are now kept as a matter of record for numerous reasons, the first being that the bible is a historical document.  You might recall there was a time in the US when we were allowed to keep slaves.  Thankfully that time is no more, however, I do remember hearing something about slavery in every history book I have ever read.  Being the Bible scholar you are, I am sure you would agree that remembering one’s history is very important.

In the New Testament, Jesus told us the only way to get to heaven was through him.  He was the ultimate sacrifice for our sins.  To accept him as your savior is to accept him into your life, in hopes to follow, to the best of your abilities, his example.  You must stop those behaviors that are sinful and begin to do things that are pleasing to God.  The greatest thing about this salvation is that when you fall short you can ask for forgiveness and receive it:  Much different then the laws of old which, quite often, had dire consequences.  The bottom line is this: accept Christ, change your sinful ways, and ask for forgiveness when you do sin (and you will).

Gary,

I find it interesting that you would use your brother’s daughter as a pawn.  Obviously you felt her actions were against God’s word and you felt that your brother was being hypocritical since he let her and her boyfriend sleep in the same bed, which is a sin.  But in do that, to show your brother that he is allowing that sin in his house, you yourself are admitting your sinful behavior. 
When you “called him onto the carpet” you basically said:  “You daughter is sinning yet you do nothing about it, why then do you punish me for my behaviors (which are sinful).” If you are using her actions as a parallel for yours then you must (either consciously or subconsciously) feel that you actions are equally wrong.  I urge you to continue to read God’s word and search your heart on this matter.

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you (Matthew 28:19,20).

Gary-
This was posted in response to Dr. Laura and her crazy ass. It is not original, but I thought it addressed the “moral gap” in the reflection of these comments. Post away. Author Unknown.
Duncan

Steve-
Please seek immediate psychological assistance.
I think Christ would agree.

Duncan,

Wow!  What a great comeback.  Did you get that one from Dr. Laura’s “crazy ass” as well?  Thank you for validating my thought that you had abosolutly no idea what you were talking about and were probably using someone else’s actual research.  Well done!  Reminds me of myself when I was in college and spent my time partying and not doing any work, but rather relied on other people’s ideas to make me look smart.

Guys, we might as well give it up, Steve is the only rightous one.  But hey, for all of the us of us, let’s party on!  I think God will sneak out of heaven and party with us, because he is a good guy!

Steve,
Was not making the parellel of my actions vs. My nieces...the Bible does that, along with all those other archaic laws...anyway, with your response to my posting, I couldn’t have written anything according to your satisfaction. Just as I’ve seen many so called “Christians” throughout my life selectively use 2 and 4,000 year old laws, in which most of us don’t even know in what context they were written, since we didn’t live back then, you use your narrowness to raise yourself above all this. Oh...for you to have been so priveledged to have come into puberty with the gender preference orientation toward women.

My sister came into her puberty realizing she had the same preference as you...she fought it as a good “Christian” should...became miserable with her self-denial and hateful homophobic culture we live in.....then killed herself.

At her funeral our our born-again baptist minister pointed his finger at her friends, who had driven 150 miles to pay their respects, and told them they were just as dead as my sister was laying in her coffin! If that’s Christian love, then you can have it!

That was the turning point for me and my religion of origin...my sister had lead me to Christ five years before her death, and I know she has her heavenly reward...it’s that pastor and my homophobic brother who rejects me that I believe are going to answer to Christ when they stand before him.

1 John 4:8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.

That’s the bottom line...God is Love

Peace to you

Continue to speak your mind, people are so afraid to say and do the right thing because of the arrogance of the extreme right.  I refuse to believe that the majority of the American people will want to validate Bush’s first term by voting for him again.  The Republican party is loyal to itself first and the country second.  This country cannot handle another four years of Bush.  Let’s see to it that he is defeated not only for this country’s sake but the world’s as well.

hey margret

Rock on, your strength and courage are what democracy is about. free to express yourself even if others dont agree, thats what democracy is suppose to be about.  Why cant we all just get along?

Peace

Cincy and All,
With all due respect to any individual, I am truly flabbergasted at some comments. Particularly one made by Cincy. “Talk to any gay person and all of them had some kind of tragic childhood....” Gosh, I don’t know, I’m a 29 yr. old happy, well-adjusted lesbian. I was raised in the church (actually met my first girlfriend there, it being the ever close-minded Church of Christ also)(in the South), my mother has always been my best friend, I was never raped, molested, interrogated, etc… Nor did any man ever treat me poorly, Cincy. I honestly can not recall any given moment of absolutism that made me think, “ Hmmm.. I should be gay because I’ve been traumitized.” Go figure.
I can say I do agree with a