How To Sell a War

Ag, what is there to say? Corrupt to the core and nothing is less surprising.

The War on Iraq was a phony war, run by a phony president and phony Cabinet, based on phony intelligence and phony sound bites.  Rampton and Stauber do a good job of deconstructing the multiplicity of lies, half-truths and deceptions that the Bush Administration assembled to invade this sovereign country.  This is the most egregious foreign policy action in U.S. history.  If Bush is not impeached for this, impeachment no longer has any meaning in our system of government.......

Whine, whine, whine...Bush will not be impeached.  The American people are more sophisticated than you give them credit for.  Most of us knew deep down that the connection between Saddam and Al-Queda was tenuous at best.  The truth is that he was a wild card that needed to be dealt with sooner or later.  In a post 911 world we can’t afford to “wait and see” if a sworn enemy of the United States will take action against us or our interests.  Sometimes you have to go after the roaches in their nests BEFORE they invade your kitchen.  One roach down....

sure seems like weapons inspections were taking care of the roach problem.  i fail to see how killing thousands of innocents furthered the cause of protecting the united states from terrorism.

This, and all the stories I have read by Mr. Rampton and Mr. Stauber, have been extremely informative and truth-bearing.  If these were the types of articles and news stories that even saw the light of day in the fourth branch of government, a.k.a. the media, we wouldn’t have so many silent ignorant self-proclaimed “patriots” that stand lock-step behind dictator Bush and his corporate cabinet.
Thanks guys for all your good work.
Mike Murray

Lyle, spoken like a true “patriot"--one who doesn’t question the government’s motives no matter what.
This country has practiced genocide like every other super-power, all under the name of civilization. Are the Iraqi people better off? FUCK NO. Will they benefit from our once-again telling them what’s good for them. No way.
This reaction of the government’s use of fear and pre-emtive strikes is exactly how they want you to react. It was used during expansion of the west, when we wanted to kick the Chinese out after building the railroads, during prohibition, on and on.

Are we supposed to be the policemen of the world? If that’s the case, then you’d think the rest of the world would have some say in how we deal with our power. Instead, and a perfect example of this is the administration’s brush-off of the UN, we do what we want when we want and to who we want. If that isn’t a bully, I don’t know what is.

Is it any wonder the middle-east hates us? When in 1953 we sponsored a coupe to overthrow a democratically-elected prime minister in Iran, then put in the Shaw who proved to be as brutal as Sadaam (another political puppet). And what did this do? It led to the rise of Isalmic fundamentalists in power over their governments. Situations we created.
Then what do we do? We blow the hell out of innocent children and civilians all for numerous unfounded reasons and people just smile and accept it. Where’s that peacekeeping compassion in Liberia? In East Timor? Oh, wait, nothing there of interest to the US.

I’m a patriot who questions this government’s motives to foster change.

It’s bullshit. The last five presidents are all guilty of it and would be convicted in the World Court of the UN if they were ever able to stand trial.

What a great magzine. Wish I could afford to buy it. Actually, I don’t believe the magazine is even available in Canada. Too bad you do not make available the most important stories availabe on the web. I am sure there are lots like me who take a deep interest in the Affairs of our southern neighbour. 

As an AMERICAN, I am deeply saddened and outraged over how a group of neo-cons were able to lead this nation into an unjustified war. The incredible dengrating of the UN, our traditional allies and friends whom disagreed with the neo-cons is shameful and certainly damaging to our credibility and steed as a free nation. I voted for Bush but will NEVER vote for him or any one whom is party to his foray into Iraq. The loss of our AMERICAN soldiers and Iqaqi innocents because of the diabolical twisting of facts by the Bush administration is sinful and against everything this great nation stands for. I suggest that anyone who is interested go to the “ American Conservative” erbsite and read an articl by Patric Buchanan entitled “Whos War”. It is the most accurate portrayal of how a small group of neo cons pushed this nation into the quagmire in Iraq.
Shame on them and shame on us AMERICANS who so easily swallowed the hype.

Modern day telecommunication requires that we transmitt information on some basis. Cameramen will select events, some will be spontaneous, others more contrived. We then need to consider editor and producers who see the feed and make decisions about what is newsworthy. To assume that Bush and his administration can somehow orchestrate all that we see, all that happens and when it happens is silly and unrealistic. The decision to go to war wasn’t dreamed up for fun, it was after years of watching this dictator (which appears to be a kind characterisation of this guy), rape and pillage his own country, try to take over Kuwait and generally ignore international sanctions, UN directives, inspectors and diplomats, off and on for years. I must agree that at some point you gotta take a guy like that down and all his paid supporters and greed driven cronies that feed off the mothership. Taking done a modern day dictator (well equiped with his own army of PR typoes and photo’s of himself helping the poor etc) is not a pretty or simply affair. It requires payoffs, bribes, murder, blackmail, night time raids of innocent people being used by Sadam, and a whole lot more that we’ll never know (do you really want to know??) Does that make us a bully, maybe. Does that make us immoral, no. Are we trying to what appears to be right. Yes. Is the common citizen of Iraq fighting against us like Americans fought invading British in the Revolutionary War. No, why, becasue they’ve no sense of who they are and where they may be going as a country or a people. Why, becasue they’ve had awful leadership with no vision or execution of what it means to be a proud Country but instead reduced to worshiping Sadams God and Sadam himself (God help you if you beleived a different version of mankind or creation, then you get gassed and chased into the hills like the Kurds, nice.), with God and Sadam being equal in the eye of one man, Sadam himself. I think the Iraq’s are alot like us, they don’t want more than an honest way to earn a living and peace for there children. They know Sadam wasn’t about to bring them that on a long term basis. They’re hoping someone else, duly elected will. I don’t think these sporatic event of violence agianst our troops are part of a collective will instead they are part of a pissed off minority that is being alienated for the first time ever by not just us but the entire society of Iraq. 

Since some of the posts here seem to be based around a rhetorical Q&A;format, I’ll follow the same pattern just for kicks.
Am I glad Baghdad was taken?  Not really; 3000 or so civilians died, many more were injured, approximately a hundred and fifty US troops were killed (and still counting), many more injured, clean drinking water, decent medical care and basic living conditions were awhile in coming, and still are in many cases, and fighting continues etc.  Am I glad Saddam is gone?  Hell yes.  Was Saddam set up by the US?  Of course.  Was (is) our govt at least partially culpable for his brutality?  You better believe it.  Do we have any right being there?  No, I don’t think so.  Am I glad Uday and Qusay are dead?  Again, hell yes.  Did it really need 200 or so soldiers to get done?  I highly doubt it.  Was Saddam Hussein an immediate or even possibly future threat to our national security?  Ha ha ha ha. 
I am not a pacifist, but I am almost unilaterally (wink wink) opposed to all American foreign policy, driven as it is by greed, power politics and needless violence.  Iraq is another case in point, but at the very least Saddam Hussein is out of power (although unfortunately not dead); I do not say this as an apologist for Bush & Co. but as a person looking for the small silver lining in a complex and disheartening situation. 

keeping the sheep scared is the best way to keep them under control....

media has become closer to propaganda than thas as source of valid information....

Let’s hope the American people, and international people for that matter, wake up and do something about the american foreign policy before it triggers an event that will make 911 look like a bonfire.....

Steve Friedman, you’re talking about taking down the dictator Bush, right?

Are you kidding that the government has no control over the media? Oh, come on man--they don’t but their big corporate interests do.

Are we an immoral nation? Lots of the people are and our leadership definitely is.

Our country throws around Article 51 of the UN charter as an excuse to exercise its will over weaker nations who they happen to have an economic or political interest in, first scaring the hell out of the public with some contrived reasons. So then leadership of this country (the past five or so presidents at least) interprets it to fit their own interests. It’s the smokescreen used to deceive the media and the public. “Oh, well, the UN charter says so.”
By the way, how did our country vote when the World Court and the UN had a peaceful withdrawl solution to the Iraq invasion of Kuwait? They said no. Essentially telling them to stay put so we could blow the shit out of them and make Bush look more of a hero to bail out HIS failing presidency.
How did we help East Timor when they were invaded? Oh, so sorry.

I used to believe in our country and its foreign policy. The more I read about it the more I’m disappointed and saddened by it. I’m also surprised an event like 9/11 didn’t happen sooner. You just can’t treat people like that without some response.

Yeah, Saddam is a shitty guy, but he’s alive and my guess is he’s really pissed. What’s he got to lose now? That’s really frightening.

I’ve got nothing against you or anyone on these posts; I just hope we all realize the deceit that’s used to send American troops to their deaths for the Bush re-election campaign and the federally-sponsored Enron bailout.

The only thing worse than a politician is a child molester! UG, and some are even guilty of that.

Time alone will tell, we may not be alive to see the real truth unfold but I believe that the 9/11 disaster will be known as a “fundraiser” (see the Long Kiss Goodnight). So many murders and so much mayhem - so
little proof for actions taken, all in the name of profitability and oil! 

One of the many ironies is that we keep selling ourselves as the Good Guys.  What’s so noble about us when we send our young people off to a foreign country to kill and be killed for a false cause?  And back at home we are removing fundamental Constitutional rights in order to ensure complicity with the Far Right agenda.  Most of the rest of the world sees us for what we really are, the big bully who takes what he wants at any cost.  It’s too bad so many Americans get defensive about criticisms of our country instead of searching for a bit of The Truth. 

i hate osama bin laden and saddam hussein,

but i hate americans much more...god bless Saddaam for defting stupid dumb arrogant america.  He is a real man and a true hero. Saddam is a far more intelligent, sophisticated, politically able and cultured than redneck-cocaine-booze up monkey cowboy asswipe bush and all american presidents will ever be.

9/11 was the date that america was finally on the receiving end...Osama is the man!!! american killed countless people throught the 20th centrury in their wars, and through sanctions but none says a thing, but 3000 dumb fatties die then it’s a big issue!! fucked up world we live in.

This asswipe lyle (fucking inbred filty redneck) says amercians are intelligent...LMAO!!!!
most americans think saddam used chemical, nuclear and biological weapons against infidel soldiers and thsat Saddam orchestrated the 9/11 attacks.

I hope saddam hussein regains power and takes prisoner all “coaltion of 2” forces and toture them to death!!!

Osama will strike again and the coming attacks will make 9/11 look like childs play!!!

americans are so stupid they won’t catch osamA or saddam ther’re too clever 4 u people!! LAMO!!! give up!!

SADDAM RULES!!! IRAQ THAT IS!

OSAMA= DEATH TO AMERICA!!!

CAN’T WAIT FOR IT!!

**RUBS HANDS TOGETHER IN ANTICIPATION**

Beautiful.  Excellent article.  Well written.  Articles like thise used to be in the mainstream meadia.  We now have to dig and scratch to locate articles that contain the truth.

Thank God I don’t live in america.

Saddam was never an imminent threat to us.  However, years from
now, Saddam could have acquired a nuclear weapon, even
inspections.  Furthermore, countries such as France, China,
and Russia having such a huge stake in Iraqi oil deals, were
pushing for the complete repeal of the sanctions.  If that
were to have occurred he most certainly would have acquired
nukes much faster, with which he could use to black-mail the
world.  And as far as comments about innocents suffering
needlessly in this war.  The sanctions necessary to contain
Saddam were killing far more people then were killed in the war.

the bush cartel needs to be exposed for the absolute filth and evil, nazi scum they are. one of my best friends served in this illegal war.. joined the army to pay for med school. instead, he paid with his eyes. he is now blind, thanks to the moronic filthpig in office. 

The position of U.S. really dificult.American politicians has to take care of the ideas of neihgbours of Iraq.Because they gained a lot expeirence with living together long time with Iraq.

A good article, apart from the part of no iraqi’s involved in 9-11, the truth is only a few people know the true identities of those responsible for 9-11.

it is established fact that 7 of the 19 ‘hijackers’ have ‘turned’ up alive and well, yes forged or stolen ID’s, even the FBI ‘admit’ they do not know the ‘true’ identities of those involved in 9-11.

And so the ‘war on terrorism’?!! goes on.....more threats from america about chemical and biological attacks being immenent? yet no mention of the usa’s chemical and biological attacks on iraqi civillians?.......still, keep working, paying taxes and see it syphoned off to black budget attrocities and ‘defense’?!!!! spending...........

There are enough articles available on the internet showing CIA sponsored terrorism and funding of terrorists, yet still the american and also the british public at large still swallow the bull faeces delivered by the war criminal twins blair and bush.....what can the world do? build up your weapons and build them fast........for when the USA comes A BOMBING you first, you can let rip in retaliation........you may be obliterated but take as many of them yank barbarians out as you can.............what a terrible state of affairs......

Excellent story; thanks for all of your hard work to tell the truth!

I said before this war ever started that it was built and based on nothing but lies lies lies. I also said that it was not worth one U.S. LIFE over. One reader from Houston,Tx said one roach down Well their is a lot more roaches around the world that needs the same to happen to them, and you can start by spraying our WHITE HOUSE IN DC. to get rid of all neo roaches first. Yes I say Impeachment is in order for this president to take us to war on lies. PS: ANYONE THAT WANTS TO GET THE REAL STORY ABOUT THE WAR GO TO www.antiwar.com.You will not find the real story in any of the main news stations,but you will here. 

I appreciate this honest, intelligent article.  It makes me angry and sad that Americans have allowed themselves to become manipulated and exploited by the govt. and “big business”. I lived in Iraq for 6 years and have relatives there.  I opposed this war and still do.  Iraqis deserve freedom and a better life, but this war was sure not the answer for them.  And it sure isn’t going to be a good thing for the U.S. either.  What happened to the economy, health care, education, environment, ??

This war is simply about commercial venture.  The Americans were ‘planted’ in America for the same purpose. Eversince, their plantation, their sole purpose has been to make wealth at the cost of other peoples lives.

Steve Friedmanís post makes some good points and there is a lot of wisdom there. In my mind, the notion of the US abdicating itís sovernty to the United Nations is just as absurd as the notion of trying our last 5 Presidents in the World Court of the UN. This would lead to international chaos and anarchy. The US is the only country, the only stabilizing force in the world that is willing to stick its neck out, at the risk of ridicule and failure, to make this a better place for everyone. I didnít say a perfect place, the plain truth is that as long as there are human beings running things; money, economics and power will always be a part of foreign policy.

In this life, you protect your own and then you help others when and where you can. If our country ceases to exist, then what good is world opinion? Through out history, others have disliked our country. Osama, Sadam and their kind should consider this; if it hadnít been for the United States of America during WW II, they would be living in the same concentration camps along with the rest of us.  Maybe they should read some World History. But then again these folks are interested in dialog and human progress, just hate and murder. 

Yes, our foreign policy in the Middle East has been loathsome. Our intent was noble, but the end result was not. The US does not have a crystal ball to predict the out come of every foreign policy decision before it comes to fruition. 

Ignored UN Resolutions, direct and indirect terrorist related activities, WMD, massive human rights violations, destabilization of the region (oil & aggression), are a few of the reasons the US took action. The US took Sadam out to set an example; if the leadership of the Middle Eastern countries will not control their own people, then will do what must be done to protect ours.

The state sponsored religion in Saudi Arabia teaches its children to hate the West. It teaches that Christians and even worse, 90% of their own people are to be considered infidels. The dictatorships and theocracies in this region have miserably failed their people, economically as well as spiritually. Some the United States is immoral and corrupt? Compared to whom?

There is way too much money, greed and corporate influence in our government/politics and it is destroying our job base, our health care system and our way of life.

Outstanding journalism, painstaking and perceptive—and a rare example of it in recent daze.

This whole “rush in and destroy before the world can prove us wrong” attitude of the US government is going to bring us a nuclear holocaust sooner than we may like to think.  The world is paying attention.  But when will the American people wake up to stop it?

This article “How to Sell a War” was excellent.  I noticed early on how the pro-war folks had a minimal grasp of actual facts.  Today, those who feel the war “was a good idea” have much misinformation in their respective heads concerning how USA foreign policy made Saddam the monster he was (is?).  They also have much misinformation concerning how USA foreign policy was largely responsible for the UN sanctions program and for pulling UN inspectors out of Iraq in 1998.

But the Iraqi people have no such misconceptions.

On July 4, 2003; Bush again claimed that the war in Iraq was a war against 9-11 terrorism.  On July 15, 2003; Bush claimed that Saddam would not let UN inspectors back into Iraq.  Yet the US media did not counter these claims… they just replayed them unchallenged.

I would like to recommend the website “takebackthemedia.com” to everyone.  And I urge everyone to counter the false presentations in our media and by our government as often as you possibly can.

Whine, whine, whine. . . Indeed!!  Do you want to make a willful contribution to the theats posed by international terrorism?  You couldn’t do better than to support a half-witted President and his neo-con cronies divert national resources to a regime change, effectively doing NOTHING to avert the present dangers.  I shouldn’t say nothing. . . .  The litany of lies and self-serving psyops that were conjured to deploy US might against a severely diminished ME regime only served to harden the enmity and hatred against our security objectives there and throughout the globe.  News reports of surveys show that recruitment into Al Qaeda and other related terrorist groups since March is brisk and growing. 

At-a-way to go !!!  If you are so unrelenting and zealous in undermining the security of your own ass and everyone else’s, then just keep it up and egg on the catalyst SOBs in Washington. 

Von,
Steve Friedman’s post has a lot of wisdom? Are you kidding? Maybe from a simplistic, consumer-oriented outlook.
Everyone misses the entire point that no one gave two shits about Iraq when the failed Afghanistan campaign was going on. Suddenly, oh, wait, let’s go after Saddam.
And the whole comments about the US not having to answer to the UN is just absolute proof of the bully message this country sends out to the rest of the world.
Why do they hate us? They didn’t before the CIA set up the Shaw in Iran and he was far more brutal than Saddam. This led to the Ayatola and the rise of Islamic control of the governments in the Middle East. We asked for it and we got it. Before that, they were happy to just take our money for their oil.
Supporting Israel just added fuel to the fire.
The same is true about South America where at least five nations have been overthrown courtesy of our government. It’s public record.

This isn’t a matter of party politics--any head of any country around the world that pulled this shit would be subject to UN sanctions and condemnation by the US--provided they aren’t in league with us; then our country would tell the UN to piss off and leave that nation alone.

And about World War II. Germany would have eventually fallen without our help. Russia would probably have lost more than 20 million people, but would have gained more control of Europe. When you make a comment like this you completely discount England, the French resistance movement and the rest of our allies that fought the war. 
Starting to wonder why the rest of the world feels the way the do about us?

This article outlines a situation which is nothing new for America - in fact, this way of doing politics is pretty much the story of how the American plutocracy has been running the country for at least 30 years. All the US’s wars have been just as much the result of ‘managed perceptions’ as the Iraq war - and this includes the war against drugs and the war against the welfare state. Am I the only one who feels the need to point that Americans have been voting by a combination of their prejudices and managed perceptions since at least the time that California elected Governor Reagan? How dare anyone be surprised by the turn of events under Bush II!

Another stroke of Bush genius, destroy the most secular Muslim country in the world, whilst too scared of North Korea to be able to deal with it, the true number 2 threat to world peace. The number 1 place goes to Israel, up to 400 nuclear weapons all trained on surrounding countries, of course Israel doesn’t have to abide by international law, they are after all the biggest beneficiary of US foreign aid. It’s easy to destroy weak, defenceless countries that aren’t even in the top 10 of threatening countries, think about it, over 10 years of the worst sanctions after a war that destroyed most of their armed forces. Very heroic, followed by installing a puppet regime, a hostile takeover in the most twisted version of capitalism that America celebrates. What it couldn’t achieve by legal business means it intends to take by force. The true patriots of America, the ones that celebrate its Founding Fathers & the original meaning of what America was meant to stand for, seem to be the ones questioning the Bush Cabals actions, the rest are merely the kind of people who sat back, believed what they were told & let Hitler rise to power.

Lyle Gentry posted: “In a post 911 world we can’t afford to “wait and see” if a sworn enemy of the United States will take action against us or our interests.”

Unfortunately for this type of Bush fan, as in so many cases the facts contradict the position taken by the admin.  In 2002, CIA director George Tenet issued a National Intelligence assessment stating that Hussein’s policy was to NOT act against or support groups that acted against the US.  Hussein was only a threat in the minds of gullible, easily conned Bush supporters, for whom remaining willfully ignorant is a necessity.

Based on such er, logic, as to what constitutes a threat to the US, America should have attacked North Korea long before Iraq.  Wake up and smell the PNAC. 

Excellent and important background
which is most often missing in our
mass media. Congratutalations “In
These TImes.” Keep up the very
important work.

An eye opener indeed but much of it we all know already. It is heartening to see so many Americans distressed by this war- shared by the silent majority across the globe. My only wish was something more strong than these words would be able to confront the present American regime head on so that it changes the course to destruction that it has taken - before it is too late!

To Von and others who probably have never visited the Middle East yet hate Arabs (thanks to the media),

As the Saudi foriegn minister recently remarked the the kingdom has been a true ally of US for the past 60 years. Go to any of these countries and see for yourself how much hate against the west is taught there. Ask your fellow countrymen working there for decades how much they are hated there. If there is hate there is reason for it- the never ending US support to Israel. Backstabbing, dumping of allies has been US policy for long- yet the Arabs have been foolish enough to trust US for this long.

So what it was time for a change get over it

C’mon Everyone…

This war had nothing to do with WMD’s or the need to rid a country of a “tyrant” and everything to do with the currency that is used to trade oil.
Oil is traded globally with US dollars. When Saddam decided that he could trade his oil in Euros, and any other currency he wished, with whomever he wished, that made the US Gov’t a bit nervous I suspect.
That is, that the billions of US dollars that remain abroad may in fact make there way back to the US, in much the same way that a cheque that you take to the bank eventually makes it back to the person who wrote it. Now what happens if the person who wrote the cheque has no funds to cover the amount?
Scary...isn’t it?

Get over it? I bet Mr. LaForte doesn’t have relatives in Iraq getting shot at. Smells like Teen Spirit.

As for Von’s comments about how corrupt the Saudis are, you can’t separate their gov’t from ours. Our tax dollars help train the Saudi Praetorian Guard. If the Republicans or Democrats truly disliked the House of Saud, all they have to do is stop propping it up. There would be a revolution within a year.

Nor was Saddam simply a product of some Arab madness. He was trained by the CIA, which also helped him and his fellow Baath thugs achieve power in 1968.

Does anyone else think that maybe George Washington’s Farewell Address is still valid? 

Oops, here’s the Saudi link

and URL: http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2003/030515-saudi-ties01.htm

This illegal war had nothing to do with WMD. The American economy is suffering, Bush et al couldn’t find Osama, and they knew Saddam WAS in Baghdad. “Hocu pocus switch the focus” In America, nothing is more sacred than the economy. So, the American leadership starts a war with an old adversary because he has been “mean” to his own people. Now the American leadership is attacking Iraq because of humanitarian reasons! What a load of BS. Let’s not forget they are the only country to detonate a nuclear bomb on another country and they forgot how much they care about other humans in East Timor.

All to protect an $economy$...what a tragedy! 

Wag the Dog is all about the Rendon -like actions now used all the time.What is the big picture?Look past the suffering ,the little people ruthlessly sacrificed for the necessary picture and idea placement in the populations’ subconsc.,for the control to last long enough to be permanent.We are getting close. Why doyou think the debt is so high, our country bankrupt,yet no fiscal plan in place to protect the US from the US dollar crash?2 things-Euro conversion for OPEC and massive loan defaulting by the third world would be it, the end, the big crash.That is what the real race is all about-controlling the world’s energy resources and thus protecting against a crash, and controlling all the world economies. (Even antartica is planned to be drilled via the Aussies at a future date-as per cabinet files now re-classified topsecret from the 70s) .Ally these believers with the Likud’s who want a greater Israel,and the far right christians and watch out world. The proles will be happy with their dose of sport and sex and apparent battle victories. Can it happen?Not much noise from the democrats.Meanwhile Russia and china are behind the scenes forming world alliances-read the visitor book to the Kremlin. Ironical if they were the last hope of having a free and just world. 

Wag the Dog is all about the Rendon -like actions now used all the time.What is the big picture?Look past the suffering ,the little people ruthlessly sacrificed for the necessary picture and idea placement in the populations’ subconsc.,for the control to last long enough to be permanent.We are getting close. Why doyou think the debt is so high, our country bankrupt,yet no fiscal plan in place to protect the US from the US dollar crash?2 things-Euro conversion for OPEC and massive loan defaulting by the third world would be it, the end, the big crash.That is what the real race is all about-controlling the world’s energy resources and thus protecting against a crash, and controlling all the world economies. (Even antartica is planned to be drilled via the Aussies at a future date-as per cabinet files now re-classified topsecret from the 70s) .Ally these believers with the Likud’s who want a greater Israel,and the far right christians and watch out world. The proles will be happy with their dose of sport and sex and apparent battle victories. Can it happen?Not much noise from the democrats.Meanwhile Russia and china are behind the scenes forming world alliances-read the visitor book to the Kremlin. Ironical if they were the last hope of having a free and just world. 

I’m amazed by the stubborn refusal of the pro-war gung-ho chickenhawks to look facts in the face.  As well as perpetrating obvious acts of deceptions such as the ‘public pulling down of the dictators statue’ not to mention imaginary WMD and the imaginary Al-qaeda connections, they ignored regular protests by thousands of iraqis against occupation.  The resistance was first described as the ‘rag-bag remnants of the reshime waiting to be mopped up’ which then became the ‘hardline baathists opposed by ordinary iraqis’ and then we were told that they would magically disappear once we had killed the dictators sons.  It seems either they keep changing their story to keep themselves as deluded as possible or are still continually trying to hoodwink the people into thinking that the war was a success.  Eventually the goalposts will have moved so far that the justification for war will be a distant memory which is of course the exact intention of these zeolots.  The latest excuse is that the war was justified on humanitarian grounds because of all those mass graves.

Why then are american troops absent in liberia, zimbabwe or the congo preventing genocide?  Oh I forgot they have gone to liberia but are waiting offshore just incase some teenagers shoot at them. 

As America extends its global empire, remember this:
In 100% of all recorded cases, the cost of Empire is Bankruptcy.

Even after the PNAC is discredited and its proponents wither into obscurity, America will still face huge challenges to restore some semblance of balance to a social and economic infrastructure choked with misinformation, propaganda and jingoism.

As the demand for oil begins to outstrip supply (we’re hitting geographical limits here folks),
agreed by all to be between 2006 (international geographers estimates) and 2026(big oils estimate), those nations most heavily addicted to it are going to start hurting. Bad.

Nuclear power won’t save us because the uranium reserves are in even more trouble than oil.

We started with 2 trillion barrels of crude, and we’ve chugged down around half. The _good_ half. The half that just pops out and says ‘burn me’. The rest is going to cost extra to extract. Lots extra.

It will all happen in our lifetime, whether it be 3 years or 23. At least renewables will be in with a chance to become economically viable.

However, unless U.S forces give the nod to withdrawing their armies from places like Saudi Arabia, stay away from tall buildings or you may not live to see the energy revolution…

The idea that Saddam is an “evil man” and has committed “evil acts” and we should therefore by the hand of G-d deliver his people from oppression is perposterous at best.  The real evil is the dissinformation and manufactured consent (thanks Noam Chomsky) churned out at a high high volume on a daily basis.  The PNAC and all PR branches of the CIA, DoD and other “perception management” organizations should be abolished, its outrageous that our tax dollars go to pay for the high consultancy fees of these bastards.  Is Congress sleeping?  Or are they on they paid to not pay attention.  At least old Sen. R Byrd is speaking out where it counts.  Check out this related story:
http://www.alternet.org/story.html?StoryID=16261

With all of the evidence of the falsifying of charges to invoke going to war against Iraq, why hasen`t congress done it`s job, you know, the one where they set up impeachment hearings! They did it to Clinton over a BJ, but they aren`t sure if the killing and maiming of thousands of people are reason enough?? The american people have been lied to by many administrations, and now would seem to be the perfect setting to root out all of the un-american, anti-constitutional scum that have infiltrated our nations capitol! From the top right on down. Well I can wish can`t I?? 

President Bush and Prime Minister Blair are simply following, in a much more sophisticated way the mendacious way of many politicians, in their conduct of the Iraq war. What makes the problem of their lying even greater is the complicity of the free press, especially the US networks who have forfeited any claim to being objective reporters. They are a disgrace to their traditions and American democracy.

Jihaz you are an idiot.  You cant just hate people for being american because that just makes you scum just like the people that call all arabs terrorists or worse.  remember osama was trained by the CIA.  Saddam was a client for a long time. Read the intelligent responses above and learn. 

Inevitably, in this case under the guise of ‘questioning’, a movement will at some point pull so hard in the wrong direction that it goes right off a cliff.  Which is what you have a procession of here: a lot of bleating, back-slapping, shared empty-slogans and laughably off-center logic.  I hope the way the Left has made an ass of itself over Iraq doesn’t siganl it’s death-knell, assuming that bell didn’t ring quite some time back.  It would be a great loss to the opressed who have been it’s beneficiaries for quite some time (though not often recently...we would be ‘imperialists’ to save them and besides, it may involve someone getting hurt).

When the point has been reached, as it surely has, that we have become so enthralled with finding fault with our own government and society and intent on tearing it down that we can only respond to the proven suffering of people in Iraq by referencing a hallucinatory old fool like Noam Chomsky, well....I see the look of freshly washed brains in your eyes.

As usual, very political, very biased.
Where was the same anger and indignation when leftist leaders were in office doing the same things.  I’m not nieve, I know we have been and probably always will be lied to by both sides.  But, be realistic - they are ALL politicians.

Well, for the record, I don’t hate Arabs. As a matter of fact I work with them all day long and several of them are good friends. They are all deeply spiritually people (more than some Christians I know) and they love this country and they are assetts to this country.

My politics, I am not a Republican, I didn’t vote for Bush and I don’t care for his agenda. But I respect the office and the job he does. I don’t hate him or anyone else.

My Dad used to say: live in the moment, hope for the future, and learn form the past, just don’t dwell on it.

The past is gone, and as far as who did what to whom, the people of the United States and the Middle East NEED TO MOVE ON TO SOMETHING MORE POSITIVE.

We need some compassion, some forgiveness and maybe we could share some hope. That’s something worth praying for.

Hey Hunter and Jay, and all you pro-Bush Neocon wannabe hawks: the left does NOT have the corner on the anti-war market; as a matter of fact the first anti-war and anti-imperialists, and by far the most logical, are the original conservatives, libertarians, paleo-libertarians, etc.  The current war-hungry neocons are just the other side of the coin of welfare hawks; they are essentially proponents of the warfare/welfare state.  Note Bush’s total acquiescence on the drug prescritption bill.  For a good CONSERVATIVE view of the anti-war movement go to http://www.antiwar.com or http://www.lewrockwell.com, and read Texas Republican Representative’s Ron Paul speech lambastinc the Neoconservative ideals that have taken ahold of the Bush administration: http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul110.html

REAL conservatives believe what our founders believed: no entangling alliances or participation in the destructive wars of the world, but yes to free and open trade with all peoples.  Read what Thomas Jefferson and George Washington said.

Fern,

Glad to see that you are well schooled in all of the modern-media buzzwords, old horse, but I’m simply a poor definition for the word ‘neo-con’...being for handgun control, against the death penalty, for gay marriage, and an athiest, it tends not to put me in cordial company.  Secondly, I am well aware of fringe conservative gadflies like Lew Rockwell & Pat Buchanan but hate to tell you that your numbers are so small as to not warrant much attention for your anti-war stance....or perhaps I missed the angry hoards of placard waving paleo-cons taking it to the streets. 

In short, I wasn’t talking to you or anyone that holds such geriatric political views, you misunderstood what I said anyway, and you haven’t the slightest idea “what our founding fathers believed” any more than anyone else here.  Now go back to sleep, Mr. REAL Conservative. 

You know, I donít have a PhD in Political Science or History. And if I had the time to refute every point I make, I still wouldnít be able to get it in the 2500 some odd characters allowed on this page. Obviously, there was more involved in WW II than I could ever discuss in my life time. As a generalization, for the sake of time, I would say the US had a major role in that struggle and if one feels differently, go tell that to the ball turret gunner who lost both his legs in that war. 

ìGermany would have eventually fallen without our helpî. How does one know that? Get in a Time Machine and go back to check? What happened and what might have happened are two different things.

The United States saved this world as we know it. That is a fact of history, maybe a trivial one to some, but an important one to many.

Yes, the US has done some atrocious things in this world. That is gone and in the past and nothing is going to change that in this reality and that is a fact. I guess we could set up the some mystical world court and get down to some serious business. But, who will decide who is innocent and the guilty? Who will have the infinite wisdom to decide who live and dies? Who will deal with the intent and the degree of that intent, the concept of right and wrong and all the subtleties involved?

Common sense dictates that it probably would probably not be a good idea to teach a young mind to hate. It seems it would be a bad idea for our government to allow the KKK as an example, or other fringe groups to go into other countries and murder their people.

The world can think and will think what it wishes of this country.  On balance, the world should also look at all the good we have done. The world should learn to forgive us as we have many times forgiven them. No, Iím not ashamed of this country. I feel blessed to live here.

The corporate media have been complicit in the LIES of the Bush administration from day one. The news that the media refuses to report - or carefully under reports has available on the Internet for months! 

www.TvNewsLies.org, for example, is an excellent source of information and activism on every single vital issue facing Americans in these troubling times.

The site also has run an email campaign asking the four major news anchors to begin telling the TRUTH that they have been withholding from the public Thousands have responded, but thousands more are needed.  Numbers count.  Be one of them.

Once click - and your voice can be added to the campaign. 

http://www.tvnewslies.org/html/speak_up.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com, http://www.amconmag.com and http://www.govnn.com are the best sources for anti-war news. While the oil lobby certainly has an interest here, let’s not forget that ALL the neocons have ties to the Israeli lobby; most of them are members of Israeli lobby groups themselves, or have been, and most of them are Jews. Many of these top players co-wrote “A Clean Slate,” the report sent to the Israeli prime minister Netanyahu in the 90s, about how Israel should push the U.S. to attack its foremost enemies in the Gulf, the supporters of the Palestinians: Iraq, Iran, Syria...and maybe even more.

Yes, the guys who wrote that report are now in the White House. And right after September 11, Ariel Sharon demanded that the U.S. invade Iraq(!). Paul Wolfowitz is one of the main architects behind the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions, and Feith, Rumsfeld, Perle and others backed him up.... And when every major newspaper and every major news channel in the U.S. is owned by Jews (CNN, Wall Street Journal, etc), do you think this will be revealed to you? Hardly. That’s why you have to visit sources on the Internet, and learn the facts for yourself. Learn the names of the neocons, learn their connections to the lobby. And remember it all.

Odd.  I come on here anticipating a discussion of the above article w/ members of the Left and instead I’m seeing a flurry of e-mails from neo-Nazis on the Right.  I guess it’s about time that everyone started blaming all of the worlds ills on the Jews again, isn’t it?  Amazing: 19 Arabs fly planes into the side of the WTC and some fringe element of the American Right seems to find a way to start blaming the Jews again. 

If anything, 9/11 made me love Isreal when I didn’t have much opinion before.  They’ve been dealing with this bullshit for decades now.  God forbid we support the only democracy in the Middle East and the only people that weren’t cheering when our civilians died.  If it weren’t for them, Hussein would have long ago had nuclear weapons.

Up with Israel, I say.  Jews get the blame because they are sucessful and intelligent.  (Nope, I’m a full-on Scotch-Irish white boy from the American South). 

Hey Hunter,

Well, I guess you share a lot of traits with other neo-iimperialists, who are essentially the old Stalinist left recycled.

And all of a sudden people who admire Lew Rockwell are anti-Semitic because somebody, like our friend from Sweden, expresses opinions about Jews, and now we’re all Neo-Nazis?  Talk about buzzwords: Murray Rothbard, intellectual father of Lewrockwell.com and icon of the modern paleo-conservative/libertarian movement, was Jewish, and so was Ludwig Von Mises.  Nazism is actually closer to Neoc-onservatism, in it’s love of the State, patriotism, singling out of a single group (Jews then, Muslims now), corporate/state collusion, etc.

And how about a poor profile for Neo-Nazi: Hispanic, pro-civil rights, grew up with United Nations father, civil-rights activist mother, rainbow-colored family…

Fern,

Say what you will in denial of the anti-semitic issue, but perhaps you’d better review that harangue your “friend” from Sweden spewed.  If that isn’t anti-semitism, you are too far gone to turn back, my friend.  It’s paraniod, conspiratorial bullshit...the same rhetoric that led to the Holocaust.  Let me guess: that never happened did it?  If so, do you think we were correct to stop it? 

the writers of this essay are doing their own bit of misinformation by their own admission.part way through the essay they admit the insinuations made spring from ignorance. to quote,” of course, we have no way of knowing whether rendon or any other pr specialist helped influence the toppling of saddam?s statue or other specific images that the public saw during the war in iraq.” and then later to add, mind you, that they could only “speculate”. speculation, ignorance and polls! the writers of this essay are running a pr operation of their own and they ain’t too good at it. 

Hunter,

How’s it going?  We’ve traded barbs recently.  I apologize for lumping you with a broad brush with neoconservatives.  I guess I get a bit ticked off when all people who take an anti-Iraq war position are branded as leftists.

My family is split right down the middle between liberal and conservative.  Needless to say, when we have family reunions it gets pretty interesting, but at the end of the day we all hug and wish each other Happy Thanskgiving or Merry Christmas, etc.

But getting back to the issue at hand: you asked: “ I hope the way the Left has made an ass of itself over Iraq doesn’t signal it’s death-knell, assuming that bell didn’t ring quite some time back.”

Well, that is precisely what appears to be happening to the Bush administration.  As stated in a recent article in Asia Times:

“Indeed, as both lawmakers and Bush left the capital for the August recess, the overriding impression is one of a diffusion of power that the president might find difficult to recover when official Washington reconvenes in September for what is shaping up as a very difficult autumn...Bush’s handlers appear to have sensed that he has lost authority over the past few weeks...” (see: http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Middle_East/EH05Ak01.html)

On top of that, you have people like General David Hackworth, the most decorated U.S. veteran, blasting the administration with comments like this:

“In mid April, I wrote a piece that asks for Rumsfeld to be fired, to be relieved. I took enormous heat for that. He went in light, on the cheap, he has misunderstood the whole war, he should go ... Rumsfeld is an arrogant asshole. That’s a quote, by the way.” (see: http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0805-09.htm)

The good thing about all of this is that maybe the leftists and the mainstream conservatives are self-destructing.  The lies of Clinton and the Bush Administration have been and are soon to be evident for the American people to see, and hopefully this will finally open the public’s eyes that no one in power is honorable, everbody in power lies, no-one can be trusted, and government is essentially a predatory protection racket that needs to be kept to it’s bare minimum, as was originally envisioned in the Articles of Confederation, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights.

That’s my .02 cents worth, Hunter.  No disrespect meant to you, and I welcome your reply.

Best regards,

Fern
Austin, Texas

The United States has gone into other countries and has done some unsavory things. The United States has gone into other countries and attempted to good which turned out terribly bad. Many times, the United States has gone into other countries and has done many good things. These countries were complicit with us, and they aided and abetted us. The old adage applies here, it takes two to tango. No one put a gun to their head and made them do anything. Some even requested our help. In some instances our thanks for this has been betrayal.

In the court of world opinion, our allies are just as self-serving as we are. The United Nations is a prime example where self-serving interests out weighed duties and obligations agreed on by both sides.

It is morally reprehensible for a foreign country to take our money for oil, take 5 billion dollars in foreign aid a year, and at the same time turn around and teach children to hate and murder us. Iím sorry, I see nothing fair or spiritual about this and I just donít understand this. If you have a grievance with our country than sit down and talk to us. 

I donít buy the Arab/terrorist argument that the US has done all these awful things in the Middle East so therefore we must all die for our transgressions. Look, if the United States declared a jihad against everyone that ever wronged us, there wouldnít be a planet left to live on. 

When I make the statement and known fact that ìThe United States saved this worldî during WWII, that is meant to be a generalization. I am in no way summarily dismissing the rest of the worldís efforts. That is someone elseís assumption.

If people perceive that the United States is an evil empire and that we are a bunch of bullies, so be it. If people feel the totality of our foreign policy is that we act out of malice and ill will towards others that is their freedom to think so.

I donít know of any place in the Constitution where it states that the United States has to be perfect in all itís judgments and in itís execution of the those judgments. The United States is any on going experiment and like any experiment you have successes and failures. We donít always act correctly or have it all figured out. We make mistakes and that is how we have grown as a country. Being the worldís only super power, our country is held to a much higher level of scrutiny than any country.

This my last post. Thanks for putting up with me.

Hi Von Ehman,
I do believe there was a “mystical world court” at one stage. It was called the World Court, funnily enough, and made the mistake of ruling that the US acted with unlawful use of force in Nicaragua.

P.S. “If you have a grievance with our country than sit down and talk to us”
How do you reconcile this statement with the fact that the men and women who claim to represent you have bombed 25 different countries since WWII?

Bush has done the counry one (and only one) great service. He has resurrected Pogo’s great truth. We have met the enemy and they is us!” .... They REALLY IS!!!

Careful now.........

August 9, 2003

WASHINGTON—Former international weapons inspector David Kay, now seeking Iraqi weapons of mass destruction for the Pentagon, has privately reported successes that are planned to be revealed to the public in mid-September.

Kay has told his superiors he has found substantial evidence of biological weapons in Iraq, plus considerable missile development. He has been less successful in locating chemical weapons, and has not yet begun a substantial effort to locate progress toward nuclear arms.

Senior officials in the Bush administration believe Kay’s weapons discoveries should have been revealed as they were made. However, a decision, approved by President Bush, was made to wait until more was discovered and then announce it—probably in September.

It’s amazing how easy is to manage the public opinion in the USA. Maybe it’s related to the media ownership concentration in some few hands. Even under a mass of evidence of ill faith by President Bush & Company, there is a lot of people in the USA barking as insanelly as red faced nazis… It’s disgusting to the see this. 

Hunter is, of course, right on target. I should learn from the Israelis who have been “dealing with this for years.” Accordingly I have seized my neighbor’s house and begun trying to bulldoze his 400 yr old olive groves--but all he seems to have is tomatoes. Can I use a roto-tiller? Please advise, and don’t forget those loan guarantees. The ones I never have to pay back.

Austin iN DC

Careful now........

U.K. - AFP

Britain to produce new evidence on Iraqi WMD

Fri Aug 8, 7:24 PM ET

LONDON (AFP) - The British government is soon to present new evidence that Iraq had produced biological weapons, it was reported.

Intelligence officials were producing another dossier on Iraqi arms, and “there is said to be hard evidence of cover-up programmes designed to conceal weapons of mass destruction”, the British magazine “The Economist” said in its latest issue.

“We would hope to be able to demonstrate in the fullness of time that almost all the information in the dossier (published by the government last September) was accurate”, a government insider told the magazine.

Government sources “say that several new bits of information will emerge including evidence based on interviews with Iraqi scientists that biological weapons had been produced in quantity”, the Economist said.

Britain was the staunchest ally of the United States in the war against Saddam Hussein’s regime launched in March. Both countries used Baghdad’s refusal to give up its alleged weapons of mass destruction as the main justification for military action.

No such weapons have yet been found, while a September 2002 dossier on Iraq published by Britain has prompted hotly disputed claims that the government beefed up intelligence reports to justify war.

My message is for Von of West Virginia…
Though I see that you must be a very forgiving person, I wonder how forgiving you would be if what is happening to the Iraqi people was happening here in this country to the people that you care about. For instance, how willing would you be to
“move on” if your child, brother, sister, mother, father were killed because of a bogus war on American soil. Just look at the uprising in this country over September 11th! Is it okay for such atrocities to occur in other countries foreign to us, but not here in America? What are you saying? That only American lives are valuable? I don’t believe that there is any excuse for what is happening now in Iraq. What I do believe is that if you REALLY thought about what you were saying, you might think again.

Also, as far as respecting the “job” our president? is doing… HA! First of all, he has botched our economy beyond repair, half of America is out of work or without healthcare, and our rights are being violated each and every second he remains. How are we so hypocritical to say we are a free country, when there are innocent American citizens being held under the Patriot Act for protesting this occupation of another country?

Von, please try to see the trees through the forrest. 

Von,
I commend you on your loving attitude and forgiving spirit, but how can you reconcile that with a bogus war in Iraq? Nevermind, because I don’t think you’ll really get it until it is too late.

The American history in the books we had in high school were and are still nothing but a bunch of propaganda and bull! Believe me - there was no cherry tree. Our founding fathers, our current leaders, and our past and present foreign policies are all seriously flawed. But like you, I will continue to pray for the future, as I have children to raise in this corrupt and insane world. Besides, that’s all the peons like us can do while we wait for the next inevitable September 11th.

You know Bush and his cronies will be safe, but where will we be on the day of reckoning?

Owattajer Kiam....

Careful now....

You are beginning to sound a lot like Fox News. Oh, wait, or is it CNN? Is that where you are referencing your info? Because, DUH, everybody knows that they are big, yellow journalists posing as serious news media.

Yes, by now, I’m sure the CIA, the military and the Bushies have all had more than enough time to plant just about anything in Iraq - except for maybe wheat and corn to feed the poor and starving, but “liberated” Iraqi people.

Save it for one of those conservative type, right wing, websites full of seriously deluded people who might believe you.

Better yet, save it for the impeachment hearing.

One more for the road…
If Iraq had WMD, why didn’t they use them? Correct me if I am wrong, but, isn’t that why you have weapons? I highly doubt the Iraqi people said, “Hey, lets just let them kill us all!” and sat on all those weapons of mass destruction.

Besides, without a tangible Navy or Air Force how do you propose they would deliver such weapons? Maybe FedEx or UPS?

Maybe we should be more worried about our borders. After all, September 11th was not the result of weapons of mass destruction. It was simply a few airplanes taken over by a few lunies (not even from Iraq) let into our country and trained by our own flight schools. There is American intelligence for you!!

Owattajer.... Check this out.... Careful now… THIS IS NOT FOX NEWS OR WHATEVER…

CIA and DoD Attempted To Plant WMDs in Iraq ? and Failed

July 2, 2003
Pentagon Whistleblower Reveals CIA/DoD Fiascos

According to a stunning report posted by a retired Navy Lt. Commander and 28-year veteran of the Defense Department, the Bush administration’s assurance about finding weapons of mass destruction in Iraq was based on a CIA plan to “plant” WMDs inside the country. Nelda Rogers, the Pentagon whistleblower, claims the plan failed when the secret mission was mistakenly taken out by “friendly fire.”

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2003/06/266752.shtml 20.06.2003 [08:07]

A DoD whistleblower details an attempt by a covert US team to plant weapons of mass destruction in Iraq. The team was later killed by friendly fire due to CIA incompetence. In a world exclusive, Al Martin Raw.com [http://www.almartinraw.com/] has published a news story about a Department of Defense whistleblower who has revealed that a US covert-operations team had planted “Weapons of Mass Destruction” (WMDs) in Iraq, then “lost” them when the team was killed by so-called “friendly fire.”

The Pentagon whistleblower, Nelda Rogers, is a 28-year veteran debriefer for the Defense Department. She has become so concerned for her safety that she decided to tell the story about this latest CIA-military fiasco in Iraq. According to Al Martin Raw.com, “Ms. Rogers is number two in the chain of command within this DoD special intelligence office. This is a ten-person debriefing unit within the central debriefing office for the Department of Defense.”

Again, Owattajer.... there is more. look it up.

Considering Washington turned a blind-eye to the Hussein regime’s repeated use of chemical weapons against Iranian soldiers and Iraq’s Kurdish minority, but the US helped Iraq develop its chemical, biological and nuclear weapons programs…
and those same weapons programs ó which no longer exist, having been dismantled and destroyed in the decade following the 1991 Gulf War ó to justify a massive new war against the people of Iraq…
Considering all this and all the other evidence that has come to light in the past 100 days, ITS GOOD THE AMERICAN PUBLIC HAS A VERY SHORT ATTENTION SPAN OTHERWISE WE MIGHT SEE OURSELVES AS THE TERRORISTS.

To Adam of Arizona…

It is about time someone had the courage to say it! BRAVO!

Dana,

Iím not closed to the possibility that WMDís werenít in existence at the time of invasion.  But there can be little doubt that if Saddam was left alone, which was what France, Germany and the U.N. were pushing hard for, he would have reconstituted his WMD programs.  Being evil but not stupid, he would have given priority to nuclear.

Remember that Saddam is quoted as saying that his greatest mistake was to invade Kuwait before he had nuclear weapons. 

Bush and Blair may have over-estimated the immediate threat by Iraq, but even most democrats, when they arenít running for president, recognize the longer-term consequences of inaction.

Itís bold for the left to take this tack on Iraq.  But maybe not too bright, considering the very real possibility that WMDís themselves or the evidence of their recent destruction or dissemination, or plans for their reconstitution are found.

But anything found I guess has been planted, according to your conspiracy theories.  Youíve got your bases covered.

Who should I give my exclusive story to?  I know..... Iíll get Al Martin.  Who?  Al Martin.  Howbout the NY Times or the Washington Post?  Naa, they check stuff.  Wait, maybe the TimesÖÖ..Oh yeah, Jasonís gone.  Get me Alís number.

Hereís an actual conspiracy for you.  (people working together) Go to http://cpusa.org/ Note the link to Moveon.org at the bottom of the blue window at the upper left.  If that doesnít raise an eyebrow or two on you and youíve havenít just had a botox injection, weíre in real trouble.

Whatever chemical WMDs are found at this late date will do nothing to persuade the rest of the world of anything. For it is clear that the US had no proof when it said it did --and what appears so late could have been planted.
The world believes that the war was never motivated by WMDs. but rather for:
1) oil
2) Israeli interests
3) related necon pipe dreams
4) a distraction from Osam and 9/11
5) a distraction from the economy

The Ayatollahís grandson is not concerned with WMDís.  He sees a bigger picture.  A descendant of the Prophet Muhammad seems to have a deeper understanding of and more appreciation for the U.S. constitution than does the collective left in this country.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4730215,00.html/

Impeach them all! The supreme court must go with the rest.

Von Ehman ó?

So how do you reconcile your belief that the US shouldn’t bend to the will of the UN with your contention that Iraq’s violations of UN mandates justifies intervention? You can’t have it both ways.

Holy shit! You guys missed the biggest scoop of ALL on “toppling statue” story!

Check THIS shit out!

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article2842.htm

For me, the war in Iraq provided verification for everything that I’ve read about propaganda and it’s ability to shape public opinion. Although I may have previously doubted that the public was as gullible as the propagandists portrayed them, I no longer feel this way. Sadly, the malleability of public opinion is probably far more harmful to our “ fragile experiment in democracy” than any terrorist could ever be.

>>A descendant of the Prophet Muhammad seems to have a deeper understanding of and more appreciation for the U.S. constitution than does the collective left in this country.<<
Why thank you, Newt. Alahu Akbar!  Now its time for B & C:

B. Blame America first, as in “these people hate America.” Repeat as needed.
C. Class Warfare, as in “ picking on Bush’s Enron cronies is just liberal class warfare.” Repeat as needed.
Of course if you really believe this repetitious BS, fully half your fellow citizens are traitorous dupes or closet Bolsheviks. Gee, that must make it hard to sleep without the light on :-)

Austin

Owattajer,
What amazes me is your attempt to link all Democrats/Progressives to the Communist Party! It was very smooth, I must admit.
So, if we don’t believe in the war then we must be, OF COURSE, un-patriotic AND Communists. Please.

Why don’t you just avoid the big picture altogether?

The fact is, the United States created the proverbial monster by selling and supplying guns and numerous other weapons to to the likes of Saddam Hussien for decades. In fact, the Bush Administration allocated millions of dollars to the Taliban up to four months prior to the terrorist attacks on September 11th.

“You’re with us or against us,” you say? It seems that in our time of need, our government was not “with us” at all.

Also, the only conspiracy “theory” here is the right-wing’s sad attempt to accuse anyone that dares not follow their lead as crazy conspiracy theorists.

So, is it okay to turn a blind eye to the Taliban, Saddam, and Osama as long as they are playing according to our rules? Wasn’t Iraq our ally during the time Saddam gassed the Kurds? Why was nothing done then? Hmmm.

It sickens me to know that there are people that truly believe that we are to be the judge and jury of the world. Democracy (and our constitution) gives us the right to a fair trial—to be innocent until proven otherwise. Yet, we do not extend this to the rest of the world.

I have no doubt that if given the opportunity, Saddam would have reconstituted his WMD programs. However, with crippling UN sanctions and the constant traffic of weapons inspectors it would be near impossible.

Checking facts does not seem to be one of YOUR strengths either.

the Air Force “Information Operations” document cited above is available here:
http://www.why-war.com/resources/files/read.php?id=114

What a fantastic piece of journalism. I am curious about one thing, though: how many of you voted in 2000? How many of you will
actually take the time to vote in 2004?
American voter turnout is nothing short of abysmal, yet there seems to be a never-ending supply of informed citizens making impassioned pleas to the population at large. If every angry American that takes the time to pound out an online comment derailing the Bush administration’s bloodthirsty policies took just two friends to the voting booth next November, Bush would be defeated so badly that no amount of Supreme Court wrangling could save his sorry ass.
Do you REALLY want to rid yourselves of this cocksucker? Fine.
Step away from the keyboard, put on a fresh pair of boxers, grab two buddies and VOTE!!!
American soldiers have given their lives for your right to cast a ballot; don’t insult their memory by not using it.

To the last writer…
You are absolutely right. I have only missed one election in my life (including local) and it was a primary when I was in college. I didn’t get my absentee in in time. I don’t just pound on the keyboard. I read, I debate and I write to my representatives.

However, you are correct that there are too many complainers and not enough voters.

A puppet is a puppet even if he is the ayatollahs grandson.  I’m descended from Adam himself but that doesnt make me holy! Perhaps he is hoping that the US will reward him with money and power.  He wouldnt be the first politician to spot the gravy train and make a run for it.  The neocons are desperate for any piece of information to block the tide of bad news. This is really scraping the bottom of the barrel but i did find it amusing.

Careful now.........

Bush claims new Iraq link with al-Qaida

Bin Laden turned to Bagdad after concluding al-Qaida could not produce weapons, says prisoner

2003-08-10 / Agence France-Presse /

A high-ranking al-Qaida operative in custody has disclosed that Iraq supplied the Islamist militant group with material to build chemical and biological weapons, the Bush administration said Friday.

“A senior al-Qaida terrorist, now detained, who had been responsible for al-Qaeda training camps in Afghanistan, reports that al-Qaida was intent on obtaining (weapons of mass destruction) assistance from Iraq,” the White House said in a report.

The 25-page document was released as President George W. Bush vacationed at his Texas ranch.

The Bush administration cited links between al-Qaida and Saddam Hussein’s Baath party regime as justification for attacking Iraq to oust Saddam. The administration also insisted Saddam had chemical and biological weapons and was pursuing nuclear weapons.

The report quoted the unnamed prisoner as saying al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden turned to Iraq after concluding his group could not produce chemical or biological weapons on its own in Afghanistan.

“Iraq agreed to provide chemical and biological weapons training for two al-Qaeda associates starting in December 2000,” the report said.

“Senior al-Qaida associate Abu Musab al-Zarqawi came to Baghdad in May 2002 for medical treatment, along with approximately two dozen al-Qaida terrorist associates.

“This group stayed in Baghdad and other parts of Iraq and plotted terrorist attacks around the world.”

The report, quoting the State Department, also says the fallen regime of Saddam Hussein “provided material assistance to Palestinian terrorist groups, including the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command, Hamas and the Palestine Islamic Jihad.”

The Saddam regime, says the report, “posed a threat to the security of the United States and the world. With the removal of Saddam Hussein’s regime, a leader who pursued, used and possessed weapons of mass destruction is no longer in power.”

Since May 1, when Bush declared the combat in Iraq effectively over, occupation forces have found no conclusive evidence of Baghdad’s banned weapons programs in spite of intensive searches.

What is this “careful now” crap? It is the precisely the press being “careful” that has allowed this administration to flummox the media and shift ground on the issues daily.
And finding a few bioweapons at this late date and killing Saddam won’t persuade the GAT 8 to support this adventure financially.
Even the dimmest can read the numbers: We can’t AFFORD this war.
The fact that the postwar has been bungled as well doesn’t help either.
I wish I had a seltzer bottle pointed down “careful now“‘s pants. Being careful (i.e., uncritical) is what got us into Vietnam, Somalia and a number of other moronic ventures. “Careful Now” is the mantra of (paid?) political Trotskyite apparitchniks and policy enunichs like C. Boyden Gray.

AUSTIN in DC
I see Gray every AM. Boy, does he need a dentist!

Dana,

Do you remember ìInternational Answerî?  They were the warm and fuzzy folks who sponsored all of those wonderful ìpeaceî protests.  I personally got several emails from friends urging me to go to this rally and that rally.  Usually, there was a link to ANSWER.

http://www.internationalanswer.org

It wasnít widely advertised, but hereís a little history taken from the editorial linked below:

International ANSWER (Act Now to Stop War and End Racism) is a front group for the communist Workers World Party.  The Workers World Party is, literally, a Stalinist organization.  It rose out of a split within the old Socialist Workers Party over the Soviet Union’s 1956 invasion of Hungary—the breakaway Workers World Party was all for the invasion.  International ANSWER today unquestioningly supports any despotic regime that lays any claim to socialism, or simply to anti-Americanism.  It supported the butchers of Beijing after the slaughter of Tiananmen Square.  It supports Saddam Hussein and his Baathist torture-state.  It supports the last official Stalinist state, North Korea, in the mass starvation of its citizens.  It supported Slobodan Milosevic after the massacre at Srebrenica.  It supports the mullahs of Iran, and the narco-gangsters of Colombia and the bus-bombers of Hamas.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A25043-2003Jan21?language=printer

Advocates of communism and socialism were intertwined among the marchers like crabgrass.  You may not think of yourself as a communist, and Iím certainly not calling you one, but my god, the agenda of the communist and socialist parties throughout the world and that of the democratic party (if they were to be honest) in this country are nearly indistinguishable.  The only thing that keeps us from becoming Sweden are those pesky red states.  (not that Swedenís so bad, but I prefer vibrant free market capitalism to state sponsored socialistic mediocrity)

End pg. 1

Pg. 2

You seem to be uncomfortable with the link between the cpusa and moveon.org.  Thatís a good sign.  Iím glad you didnít say ìso what?î You need to recognize that their ultimate objectives are very much the same.  Hence the link.  The communist party of the U.S. thinks that moveon.org is worthy of a link at the top of their home-page.  Does that not make you stop and think what the hell?

Your arguments about past associations are something we can learn from, but not a compelling argument for which to blame anything conservative or republican.  There is plenty of blame to go around.  Jimmy nearly allowed the soviets to take Afganistan, and Reagan/Bush 41 neglected to clean up the mess after denying them of it.  Reagan/Bush 41 did a great job against communism, but were blind to the rise of Islamic fundamentalism.  Reagan didnít respond properly to the bombing in Beirut.  Bill didnít recognize a war had been brought to America with the first WTC bombing, nor did he take Osama into custody when offered.  Bush 43 didnít take seriously enough the warnings about terrorism from the outgoing Clinton administration. 

All this was before 9-11, however.  Things changed after that and for awhile, it seemed that the democrats were changing along with everyone else.  But it turned out that it was all an act and they couldnít keep it up for long.

Operating without a crystal ball, weíve tried to do what we thought was best for national security and world stability and associated with those that seemed at the time to be the best ones to help us with the job.  Itís really no more complicated than that, even though to make it so sells books, newsletters, and lectures.

I need to make one correction in your assertion about support for the Taliban, I think.  I canít seem to find verification, but Iím quite sure that when this allegation was originally raised, it was easily batted down.  We didnít give millions to the Taliban, we gave millions to the WMF or one of those funds as we always do, and they in turn gave to the Taliban.  But I could be wrong and would gladly admit so if demonstrated as such from a credible source.

Austin,

What bothers you so much about someone raising the possibility that we were right to go to war with Iraq?

All Iím doing is repeating news stories.  They may turn out to be true and they may not.  None of us know for sure.  Thereís millions of Iraqi documents yet to be translated and analyzed.  Why does the left claim to know more than those whose job it is to know more.

I canít help but think that if Saddam were found tomorrow in a huge underground cavern along with chemical, biological and nuclear weapons ready for launch, you would be extremely disappointed.  You wouldnít be glad that your country was vindicated in the eyes of the world.  It would just be no fun because it happened under Republican leadership.  Isnít that what itís all about?  If there had been a 9-11-93 and Clinton had taken the exact action Bush has, youíd be cheering him to the rooftops.  Why do I think so?  Because I don’t recall a speck of criticism from the left during his build-up to and prosecution of that beautiful but ineffective fireworks show that was supposed to “seriously degrade Saddam’s chemical, biological, and NUCLEAR capability”

What would be your feelings if America was vindicated?  Would you be gladÖ.. or mad?  Think very carefully.  Because answering “mad” even to yourself has some very “sad” implications.

So now Saddam is in a cavern polishing his WMD, presumably chatting with Bin Laden over a cup of tea!  I cant wait to see pictures of that. With that imagination you should be working in Hollywood. 

It is instuctive that our resident logothete, Owattajer Kiam, simply asserts that I would be” shouting from the rooftops” if Clinton had precipated this Iraq adventure. That is entirely false, and it reveals much about his thinking.
I perceived this war to be foolish on its (de)merits, not on the basis of who started it. It is Owattajer Kiam, not I, seeing things in a simplistic way.
Sure getting rid of Saddam was a good thing, but this was always outweighed by the cost and consequences--growing more apparent by the day.
We have 1) alienated allies 2) bankrupt ourselves 3) infuriated muslims 4) set dangerous unilateralist precedents 5) split our intelligence assets into waring factions and 6) paralyzed our capability to act elsewhere if, unlike here, it were actually urgent.
Yet we are asked to believe this all this was worth it to give the Iraqi people their freedom? Forgive me if I observe that the US takes a rather irregular interest in arab well-being, as any Palestinian (or Amnesty International worker) would be happy to demonstrate.
Mr. Kiam speculates idly on how I would react if this war turned out well. I would react the same if it snowed in Georgetown today, i.e, with astonishment.

Austin

DC Weather Report: 90F, Humid
DC War Report: 113F, 3 more dead