We have computer voting with a paper trail. Many are willing to accept this as adequate.

I have talked about this with many friends who use computers every day — they buy and sell, do their banking, pay their income taxes with complete confidence. This always amazes me.

I would like to hear if anyone out there with programming experience has this kind of confidence.

hey wth,

i concur with your amazement. marketing and banking have ensured that consumers have traded their privacy for convenience. we are now digital data stored and shared - case in point is that since gov agencies were not allowed to collect such data on the citizenry, private collectors of our digital data are now contracted to do the work that the gov had no infrastructure to collect.

these private collectors such as choice point collect data for ‘legitimate’ reasons - identification, credential verification, background checks, drug testing, pre-employment, etc. even wal-mart or convenience store cameras above cash registers collect ‘legitimate’ data - your driving license as you open your wallet. i travel a lot and without tracable credit cards i couldn’t function without pockets full of local currencies - hotels, rent-a-cars, etc. 

wth, you are old enough to remember when the gov promised that social security numbers would never be used for id purposes. ha!

but back to the vote - i believe private enterprise has no business in the primary participatory function of citizens in a democracy - the vote. especially when these businesses claim the programs installed are propriatory and not open source (are even on record claiming that preferred candidates would win) - so programmers can take a peek.

digital data is too easily manipulated - an easily recognizable example would be touching up of photos. of course, such software is designed to do just that - but so could vote results in hidden, propriatary code in voting machines or tabulators or centralized processors etc. ask the machine for the totals again (recount) and it’ll only spit out the same numbers.

all functions of gov cannot be privatized - if so, what do we need of gov? naw, this is that old free market libertarian crapola - the end result of which is a handful of corps owning everything and a new brand of human slavery - worker and consumer both owned.

i am confident that volunteer citizens would happily sit around a table and count ballots in our communities - the news cycle could just wait a bit for results - or go back to exit polls - which have been accurate worldwide until the magic of 2000 - and the computer vote.

what happened in 2006 was that the turnout was nearly 40% - the numbers of gop flip votes and youth dem votes overwhelmed various theft plans in many places. a low turnout would have ensured continued gop ‘man-dates’ and more ‘political capital’ to pass along to corporate contributors while further enslaving citizens. govs are always afraid of the people they govern - thus the creeping control over us in the name of preserving our freedoms ...

BINGO! hourglass,

“wth, you are old enough to remember when the gov promised that social security numbers would never be used for id purposes. ha!”

When I signed on with the VA I was asked for, “...your last four.” (The last four digits of my number.) I proudly commented that I still knew my entire seriial number. The last four of my Social Security number was what she wanted. They are now the military number for each member — talk about security!

I saw a congressman on TV (sorry, forgot the name) who had extensive computer business experience. When asked about computer voting machines he said something to the effect, “They are good for many things — voting is not one of them. Think about it — you expect people to use it a few times a year and expect it to work well. When was the last time any software performed flawlessly the first time you used it and then every time?”

Interesting comments above. I read enough articles on this subject not long ago, as did many of us of course. Did Bush win the election or not?

I agree totally that private companies should not be involved in the voting process. And any reasonable person who has looked at the companies involved and their histories will be appropriately mortified that they are. I’m actually more familiar with the American system in that regard than I am with my own Canadian system. Although I’m sure that the same companies operate here.

It does seem a shame, however, that we can’t use modern technology to make life, and voting, easier. Still, The principled approach, I feel, would be to see getting the voting process free from any possible interference by special interests as being the highest priority.

What I recall from looking at this before is that the machines were in fact not infallible. Nor are they impervious to hack attacks. What was suggested by some, in that regard, was that ‘if’ we must have electronic balloting, then we must still also have some sort of paper trail. I don’t know about that.

I don’t believe that the balloting process can’t be fixed. Once we ‘fix’ those who oversee it - a political problem - then it will be fine. And I’m sure that a purely paper process is fine also. But enough people have to care first. Let’s stop electing capitalists and start electing leaders who will say no to capitalists when necessary - because you can trace pretty much all of society’s problems to short sighted profiteering.

I’m sorry to report that we may not be there. Folks are too busy consuming things and watching baseball etc. when they aren’t working too much. True, There are many who do those things who still manage to care and pay attention. But I fear they are actually a minority.